Elementary Teachers Or Hsmom- Teaching Printing/cursive ?

[puellapaschalis]

For me it's a bit moot as I could write before I went to school (precocious toddler) and hassled my father into "teaching" me "joined-up" writing in my first year. However, I think we were taught cursive when I was in lower middle school - so I was 9 or 10 I think.

[Autumn Dusk]

I know some kids back in the 90's who's school did that. It didn't really affect their ability to write, but they were quite set back in reading.

[she_who_is_not]

It really depends on the child.
The children I taught usuallly had some form of dyslexia or dysgraphia. Cursive was taught from the beginning, due to the research related specifically to students with dyslexia.
If the pure method was taught, children as young as 4-5, had no trouble mastering cursive.
However, many schools are adopting a hodge podge Orton-Gillingham approach in mainstream K-3 learning. Taken out of context, many of the methods may harm rather than help.
I have encountered a number of smalller schools where this is true. It bothers me because the Orton method is miraculous when properly implemented.
I would suggest your friend talk to the teacher and ask for her rationale in teaching cursive. Sometimes these things get started because it is trendy and the teaching may not be trained in how to teach a small child cursive.
There is strong research that cursive handwriting promotes brain development. It is particularly helpful for kineshtetic learners.

Edited October 8, 2008 by she_who_is_not

[StColette]

I learned cursive in 1st grade but don't remember if I had difficulty with it or not. I remember practicing it a lot with my mom but that's about it.

[prose]

I learned it in 4th grade. I remember thinking it was the "upper grade" school way of writing.

[icelandic_iceskater]

my little sister learned cursive in kindergarten. granted she already knew how to print pretty dang well by then. forming letters just came naturally to her.

I learned it starting in 2nd grade. Still can't write cursive well. Apparently I hold a pencil the wrong way

[MissyP89]

I learned in the 3rd grade, and it was pushed on me that cursive is faster...but honestly, I even print slow, and my printing is faster. It's also nicer looking.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1672827' date='Oct 8 2008, 03:22 PM']I learned in the 3rd grade, and it was pushed on me that cursive is faster...but honestly, I even print slow, and my printing is faster. It's also nicer looking. [/quote]

Same here.

Although my handwriting has morphed into a somewhat cursive-eque form.

[mcts]

i learned in 2nd grade, but i never quite mastered it. It was so bad that my 5th and 6th grade teachers, who, before they saw my handwriting, said that EVERYTHING had to be written in cursive, agreed to let me write in printing because it was obvious that I was trying, but couldn't do it, and they couldn't read my writing.

[Fidei Defensor]

I learned in 2nd grade, and the second graders who I work with after school are also learning it. How strange.

[Nihil Obstat]

I was pretty awful, learning it in grade five. If my teacher had marked it, I definitely think I would have failed.
Luckily I was passable enough to get through, then use printing when I needed to be legible.
Then, a few years later, I went back to handwriting, but developed my own style that works far better than the weirdness out gr. five teacher tried to force down my throat.

[Guest KateGladstone]

Re:
"The children I taught usuallly had some form of dyslexia or dysgraphia. Cursive was taught from the beginning, due to the research related specifically to students with dyslexia."
Please either cite this research or direct me to a web-page or other source whereon a citation appears. (The research I cited appears on the "Writing Rebels" page of my handwriting web-site at [url="http://www.HandwritingThatWorks.com"]http://www.HandwritingThatWorks.com[/url] .)

If it matters:
I have dyslexia, I have dysgraphia, and (like my late father and his cousin who had the same conditions) I did MISERABLY with cursive.
NOTE: Dad and his cousin learned their cursive -- or tried to -- when they started school in the early 1940s, back in the cursive-only era of pure Palmer Method. This makes it hard for me to accept assertions that the "pure method" works as you claim with all us dyslexic/dysgraphic folks.

Re:
"There is strong research that cursive handwriting promotes brain development. It is particularly helpful for kineshtetic [sic] learners."
Of all the people (literally hundreds) I've seen claiming this "strong research" over the years, not one has managed (when asked) to provide or identify this research. Please either cite the research or direct me to a web-site or other source giving citation.
If "cursive promotes brain development," then you'll have to explain away Thomas Aquinas, the great thinkers of the Renaissance, and all the other pretty smart people who lived more than 3 centuries ago, back when the writing style we call "cursive" did not exist. Aquinas _et_al_. do not strike me as having suffered from undeveloped brains.

Re cursive and kinesthetic learners in particular: I test out as a kinesthetic learner. (My father and his cousin showed every sign of the same.) As I say, cursive proved the opposite of "particularly helpful" in all our cases!

[cmotherofpirl]

I learned Palmer in catholic school in the 60's, am left-handed and have lovely cursive, and printing. Its interesting while reading your web page to discover that when in a hurry [ not writing letters] I have developed the alphabet style in exactly the same way you have.
I think most people who write a lot in long hand do. But I still think printing should be taught first, and teach cursive a year of so later when the child is physically able to do swirls and curves. Ben at 5 clearly cannot do this, and needs to stick to printing until that is mastered. Ideally you could present an alphabet with letters done both ways and have them master it over the course of several years, as some children acquire the fine moter skills sooner than others.

[she_who_is_not]

[quote name='KateGladstone' post='1673159' date='Oct 9 2008, 12:34 AM']Re:
"The children I taught usuallly had some form of dyslexia or dysgraphia. Cursive was taught from the beginning, due to the research related specifically to students with dyslexia."
Please either cite this research or direct me to a web-page or other source whereon a citation appears. (The research I cited appears on the "Writing Rebels" page of my handwriting web-site at [url="http://www.HandwritingThatWorks.com"]http://www.HandwritingThatWorks.com[/url] .)

If it matters:
I have dyslexia, I have dysgraphia, and (like my late father and his cousin who had the same conditions) I did MISERABLY with cursive.
NOTE: Dad and his cousin learned their cursive -- or tried to -- when they started school in the early 1940s, back in the cursive-only era of pure Palmer Method. This makes it hard for me to accept assertions that the "pure method" works as you claim with all us dyslexic/dysgraphic folks.

Re:
"There is strong research that cursive handwriting promotes brain development. It is particularly helpful for kineshtetic [sic] learners."
Of all the people (literally hundreds) I've seen claiming this "strong research" over the years, not one has managed (when asked) to provide or identify this research. Please either cite the research or direct me to a web-site or other source giving citation.
If "cursive promotes brain development," then you'll have to explain away Thomas Aquinas, the great thinkers of the Renaissance, and all the other pretty smart people who lived more than 3 centuries ago, back when the writing style we call "cursive" did not exist. Aquinas _et_al_. do not strike me as having suffered from undeveloped brains.

Re cursive and kinesthetic learners in particular: I test out as a kinesthetic learner. (My father and his cousin showed every sign of the same.) As I say, cursive proved the opposite of "particularly helpful" in all our cases![/quote]

And as always, learning is an individual process. I was just explaining the rationale behindi teaching cursive at a young age. Are you familiar with the Orton-Gillingham method?
Also, I will clarify and say that research has shown that cursive promotes greater brain development in creating stronger connections between graphemes and phonemes.
I'm not saying that if you dont use cursive you will have an underdeveloped brain. That's ridiculous. But in my experience and the studies I read, there appeared to be a correlation between cursive handwriting and achievement in reading.
Sorry, you had such a bad experience! I know that learning anything, considering the hostile environment many schools, is difficult when you have a learning disablity.
I don't have access to the files in my office as I am in school in another state, but I assure the research does exist. I'd advise you check out the Orton-Gillngham method. Sorry!
I do not support merely teaching cursive. I said that as used with the Orton method, children seemed to learn more quickly and with less frustration. However, it depends on the individual child.

[Guest KateGladstone]

Re:

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1673323' date='Oct 9 2008, 11:05 AM']... printing should be taught first, and teach cursive a year of so later when the child is physically able to do swirls and curves .... Ideally you could present an alphabet with letters done both ways and have them master it over the course of several years, as some children acquire the fine moter skills sooner than others.[/quote]

Why teach "both ways" (printing, then cursive) at all?
Why not just teach simple letters first, then the simple ways to connect them ... instead of first printing, then cursive, and then hoping that the kid develops a high-efficiency style in spite of having survived those two other styles? (Why not just teach one high-efficiency style from the get-go, instead of two mutually contradictory and less efficient styles?)

I ask those questions because the results I've seen (in schools that use the curricula designed to teach high-efficiency writing from the get-go) exceed the results I've seen elsewhere. For examples of such curricula, visit:
[url="http://www.BFHhandwriting.com"]http://www.BFHhandwriting.com[/url] (one or two of the site pages include the writing of former students, now grown up)
[url="http://www.cep.pdx.edu/titles/italic_series/excerpts.shtml"]http://www.cep.pdx.edu/titles/italic_series/excerpts.shtml[/url] (one of the downloadable graphics here -- "Children's Handwriting Sample" -- shows the writing of children grades 2 through 8 in such a program)
[url="http://briem.ismennt.is/4/4.1.1a/4.1.1.1.quick.htm"]http://briem.ismennt.is/4/4.1.1a/4.1.1.1.quick.htm[/url]
and [url="http://briem.ismennt.is/4/Worksheets.zip"]http://briem.ismennt.is/4/Worksheets.zip[/url]
(and child/adult writing samples at [url="http://briem.ismennt.is/d/dd/dda/ddaa.htm"]http://briem.ismennt.is/d/dd/dda/ddaa.htm[/url] )