Abortion War

[Majella]

The bottom line is: killing abortionists is NOT going to stop abortions!!!
I personally smile when I hear an abortionist has been killed, (1st response)!, but this is not the way to do it!!!
I have been active in the pro-life movement for about 30 years, (O.R., sidewalk counselling, picketing, etc., so you can,t say I'm wishy-washy,but I DO draw the line at killing the killers!
Do anything you like, but don,t kill them. God might have a purpose for them, like Bernard Nathenson.

[goldenchild17]

That is your opinion that its not going to stop many abortions. And its a valid opinion. But a war has not been attempted, neither has an inquisition of sorts, so to say absolutely as a fact that such a thing will not help dramatically is just ignorant in my opinion. How do you KNOW that many abortions will not be prevented? What data do you have that PROVES it?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1672775' date='Oct 8 2008, 04:11 PM']You're coming to the wrong person if you expect me to believe any regularized bishop is going to do jack-doody about anything.[/quote]

If you're not obedient to your bishop, then you're on on your own, buddy.

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1672775' date='Oct 8 2008, 04:11 PM']Do we have the governmental or religious authority to call for a new inquisition? No, not at this time, but that doesn't mean such a thing won't help or isn't necessary.[/quote]

Well, this seems rather pointless. Of course, if the political situation made an inquisition feasible then it could happen. Why would any Catholic argue with that? The point is that situation does not exist today, so how about we focus on what we can do with the political system we have and the culture we live in today?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1673521' date='Oct 9 2008, 06:30 PM']That is your opinion that its not going to stop many abortions. And its a valid opinion. But a war has not been attempted, neither has an inquisition of sorts, so to say absolutely as a fact that such a thing will not help dramatically is just ignorant in my opinion. How do you KNOW that many abortions will not be prevented? What data do you have that PROVES it?[/quote]

There is data strongly suggesting that abortion rates in countries where the procedure is almost or completely illegal are not substantially lower than countries where it is largely legal. What seems to be missing in most cases is a government and culture that share the Church's commitment to life. Often, the Church imposes its morality into the laws by the force of voter representation. Meanwhile, what's actually happening underground and in the black market reflects the culture's values, and the don't line up with the Church's.

[Socrates]

The requirements for a just war include declaration by a legitimate authority, and a reasonable chance of success.
Currently these two conditions do not exist.
Someone in a position of legitimate authority would have to declare war (Joe Six-pack or a rabble "declaring war" and running around shooting people won't cut it), and currently, an armed uprising by pro-lifers would have very little chance of success, and most likely result in worse conditions for the pro-life cause (touching on the principle of Proportionality: The anticipated benefits of waging a war must be proportionate to its expected evils or harms. )

Calling all pro-lifers cowards because they haven't risen up in arms is not an argument, but more mindless trolling.

[Aloysius]

(to socrates)

responding to the comment about Wojtywa and Ratzinger, are you honestly using those counterexamples to prove it was not just to conduct an insurgency against the Nazis or the Communists??? Wojtywa and Ratzinger were not sinful or cowards for not doing it, but those who did do such things were indeed heroes.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1677626' date='Oct 14 2008, 10:55 PM']The requirements for a just war include declaration by a legitimate authority, and a reasonable chance of success.
Currently these two conditions do not exist.[/quote]

As I understand goldenchild's stance, he believes if these conditions did exist, then we could conduct a just war against abortion. Seems like a waste of breath to even say it, but maybe I'm missing the point.

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1677629' date='Oct 14 2008, 11:00 PM']responding to the comment about Wojtywa and Ratzinger, are you honestly using those counterexamples to prove it was not just to conduct an insurgency against the Nazis or the Communists??? Wojtywa and Ratzinger were not sinful or cowards for not doing it, but those who did do such things were indeed heroes.[/quote]

That was my comment, but I didn't mean it that way. However, the insurgencies against Nazism and Communism were operated by Allied governments, not the Catholic Church, so there remains a big distinction between those wars and any inquisition. Goldenchild was comparing abortion to these other great workers of genocide, and stating that the Church should conduct a war against abortion, even though the Church never conducted a war against Nazism or Communism.