the_rev Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Well, today I went to a funeral, it was at the luthern church. It was a good funeral, (But I really thought the guy needed a rosary around his hand! and that the church needed a Marian Statue!) They first of all prayed the Apostles Creed, When they got to the part of I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, They said Holy Catholic Church!!!! And to let you people know it was capitalized in the book!!!!! Why in the world, would a non catholic service, say We believe in the Holy Catholic Chruch? Could someone please put this into perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 Probably because they believe catholic as in universal as in the church of all believers of Christ. I grew up in the Methodist church and we said it that way, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 [quote]Why in the world, would a non catholic service, say We believe in the Holy Catholic Chruch?[/quote] I'd guess that there are several possible reasons... Some Protestants believe that they were the original Catholic Church... Others think that the Catholic Church is correct, but don't care... Others think that the Catholic Church should be capitalized because it is a proper noun referring to all of Christianity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Mar 7 2004, 05:16 PM'] I'd guess that there are several possible reasons... Some Protestants believe that they were the original Catholic Church... Others think that the Catholic Church is correct, but don't care... Others think that the Catholic Church should be capitalized because it is a proper noun referring to all of Christianity... [/quote] I'd have to choose option three of these. I've never heard anyone use Catholic to mean the Roman Catholic Church who truly believed it was correct but didn't care. Certainly a Lutheran church would be more careful of its wording. And while many Protestant churches do believe that they are the original Christian church, they tend to be non-creedal and if they did recite creeds, they would NOT use "Catholic" to mean ANYTHING. I believe that Catholic in this instance means all of Christiandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 7, 2004 Author Share Posted March 7, 2004 This should probably be moved to the debate section of Phatmass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 There is really no debate about it. I was Lutheran most of my life. Lutherans believe in the Apostles Creed. Lutherans believe Catholic means universal and has always meant universal in the Apostles Creed. And its always been capatilized in Lutheran liturgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 wow. surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 7 2004, 07:01 PM'] There is really no debate about it. I was Lutheran most of my life. Lutherans believe in the Apostles Creed. Lutherans believe Catholic means universal and has always meant universal in the Apostles Creed. And its always been capatilized in Lutheran liturgy. [/quote] Catholic does mean universal, always has and always will no doubt. The difference is that the Lutheran Church did not exist when the creed was composed whereas the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church did. To suggest that the term Catholic in the Creed included the heretical and schismatic groups is hardly true. When the early Church used the Creeds and promolgated them the idea was the Universal Church was the body of believers united to the hierarchy of the Church which Jesus Christ established and which continues to exist in history in unity through the apostolic succession. The idea of denomonationalism and a "mere Christianity" are foreign to the early Church and to the sense of the word Catholic in the creeds. Edited March 8, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Anglicans say it as part of the creed too and see it as meaning the universal church in its broadest sense, all christians, in the same way that Lutherans do. Interestingly I was taught to chant the creed which includes 'I believe in one Holy Catholic and [i]Apostolic[/i] church'. Given that the apostolic succession was broken as a result of the split with the Catholic church, I'm surprised that Thomas Cranmer retained it in the English Prayer Book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Do they believe that there church is the holy universal church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Okay... here's something weirder. .. (sorry about the typing the baby keeps grabbing at... everything...) Where I grew up in the United Methodist church we said it like this: I believe in God the father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and in Jesus Christ his only begotten Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilot was crucified dead and buried. He accended into heaven. He is seated at the right hand of the Father He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins and the life everlasting... Amen. (I think that's right... it's been a long time and the baby is sucking on my arm!! ) but does anyone notice something missing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 the I believe in the resurrection of the body! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Do they not believe in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 [quote name='the_rev' date='Mar 8 2004, 07:24 PM'] Do they not believe in that? [/quote] oh... no... I forgot that part.... It should be in there. I believe something else is missing... Note to self: proofread better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 O.K. let me continue to disect the prayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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