America As The Last Man Standing

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1667973' date='Oct 1 2008, 08:39 PM'](Muslims don't take highly to abortion, homosexuality, "women's rights", contraception, sexual "freedom", and all the rest of the "rights" that liberals hold so dearly).[/quote]

Do you understand WHY it is inappropiate to make a universal statement about an entire group of people?

"All Catholics are lazy, they love poverty and can't, by themselves, adjust to our anglo-protestant work ethic"

See, that is bigotry, much like your statement.

[Norseman82]

There are some conservatives who believe that in order to preserve Judaeo-Christian morality, we need to align ourselves with Muslims in the culture wars. Do a web search on Dinesh D'Souza. I know Cathy Young wrote an article about this a year ago titled "The Right's Dance with Islam" that detailed some of this; I am trying to find an online link to that article.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Norseman82

[CatherineM]

I think that is what one of my biggest stumbling blocks is in regards to Muslims. The ones I know are closer to my personal values, regarding materialism, the culture, etc. I've got more in common with a new immigrant from Somalia than the WASPs who attend the UCC next door. It makes it so hard to keep my focus on the bottom line.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1667979' date='Oct 2 2008, 04:45 AM']I'm interested in reading about Wilders' supposed racism and anti-Catholic hatred. Can you direct me to some online sources? Direct quotes would be best.[/quote]

I can certainly do some checking up for you - it will be good for me too as I generally stay as far away from what happens in the Tweede Kamer as possible.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1668082' date='Oct 1 2008, 10:55 PM']There are some conservatives who believe that in order to preserve Judaeo-Christian morality, we need to align ourselves with Muslims in the culture wars. Do a web search on Dinesh D'Souza. I know Cathy Young wrote an article about this a year ago titled "The Right's Dance with Islam" that detailed some of this; I am trying to find an online link to that article.[/quote]


This is a futile effort. The Muslims do not and have not aligned themselves with "the right" whatsoever, despite the fact that morally and culturally they have more in common with devoted Catholics and other Christians than they do with any single other group on the planet. But they don't care about this. They align themselves with the liberal Democrats because that is who panders to them, thus enabling them to advance Islam in America. Muslims want to advance the cause of Islam wherever they go even at the expense of all else. That is their Number One Priority. And I don't blame them. It's what they feel God wants them to do. They are not interested in assimilating nor being patriotic nor being "part of" anything outside Islam (that is why they don't align themselves with the people who are closest to their own moral and spiritual ideology). The notion that the conservatives can do a dance with the Muslims to win them over would be laughable if it truly weren't so sadly naive.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1668159' date='Oct 1 2008, 11:41 PM']I think that is what one of my biggest stumbling blocks is in regards to Muslims. The ones I know are closer to my personal values, regarding materialism, the culture, etc. I've got more in common with a new immigrant from Somalia than the WASPs who attend the UCC next door. It makes it so hard to keep my focus on the bottom line.[/quote]


I certainly feel that way when I am around veiled Muslim women. I have more in common with them in regards to modesty and respect for the body than I do even with a lot of so-called Christians. But the question I would ask fairly is: Do they feel THEY have something in common with YOU? My concern is that Christians are willing (and often do it) to express ways they feel "in common" with Muslims, but I have not heard the same from the side of Muslims. It's distinctly feels like a one-way street. But this is in keeping with the Koran which teaches that every human being is born Muslim--it is non-Islamic influences that change them. So when we Christians think we are being sweet and nice by trying to "relate", the Muslims are laughing and thinking "Of course you think you are like us--you're SUPPOSED to be like us."

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1668295' date='Oct 2 2008, 07:36 AM']I certainly feel that way when I am around veiled Muslim women. I have more in common with them in regards to modesty and respect for the body than I do even with a lot of so-called Christians. But the question I would ask fairly is: Do they feel THEY have something in common with YOU? My concern is that Christians are willing (and often do it) to express ways they feel "in common" with Muslims, but I have not heard the same from the side of Muslims. It's distinctly feels like a one-way street. But this is in keeping with the Koran which teaches that every human being is born Muslim--it is non-Islamic influences that change them. So when we Christians think we are being sweet and nice by trying to "relate", the Muslims are laughing and thinking "Of course you think you are like us--you're SUPPOSED to be like us."[/quote]

That's a very good point. I think I actually mention that in my book, that after 911 I realized that I was the epitome of what Muslims would have regarded as a lazy American. You're right, they would even today, not recognize me as someone sharing their morals. That will make an interesting topic for my Pastoral Theology class today.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1668295' date='Oct 2 2008, 07:36 AM']I certainly feel that way when I am around veiled Muslim women. I have more in common with them in regards to modesty and respect for the body than I do even with a lot of so-called Christians. But the question I would ask fairly is: Do they feel THEY have something in common with YOU? My concern is that Christians are willing (and often do it) to express ways they feel "in common" with Muslims, but I have not heard the same from the side of Muslims. It's distinctly feels like a one-way street. But this is in keeping with the Koran which teaches that every human being is born Muslim--it is non-Islamic influences that change them. So when we Christians think we are being sweet and nice by trying to "relate", the Muslims are laughing and thinking "Of course you think you are like us--you're SUPPOSED to be like us."[/quote]


You have no grounds to support that, and you should, once again, be ashamed of yourself.

[Hassan]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1668356' date='Oct 2 2008, 09:22 AM']That's a very good point. I think I actually mention that in my book, that after 911 I realized that I was the epitome of what Muslims would have regarded as a lazy American. You're right, they would even today, not recognize me as someone sharing their morals. That will make an interesting topic for my Pastoral Theology class today.[/quote]


You are wrong to say that. I respect your oppinion, however you are wrong to generalize like that and I suspect that deep down you know it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1668791' date='Oct 2 2008, 10:53 PM']You have no grounds to support that, and you should, once again, be ashamed of yourself.[/quote]
MV is telling you how she honestly feels, and while you may disagree with her, she has a right to express how she experiences the world, just as you do.

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1668808' date='Oct 2 2008, 09:13 PM']MV is telling you how she honestly feels, and while you may disagree with her, she has a right to express how she experiences the world, just as you do.[/quote]

How about this?

"This is a futile effort. The Muslims do not and have not aligned themselves with "the right" whatsoever, despite the fact that morally and culturally they have more in common with devoted Catholics and other Christians than they do with any single other group on the planet. But they don't care about this. They align themselves with the liberal Democrats because that is who panders to them, thus enabling them to advance Islam in America. Muslims want to advance the cause of Islam wherever they go even at the expense of all else. That is their Number One Priority. And I don't blame them. It's what they feel God wants them to do. They are not interested in assimilating nor being patriotic nor being "part of" anything outside Islam (that is why they don't align themselves with the people who are closest to their own moral and spiritual ideology). The notion that the conservatives can do a dance with the Muslims to win them over would be laughable if it truly weren't so sadly naive. "

Let's review MV's claims about Muslims

-Muslims align themselves with the left because the left "panders" to them
-Muslims do this because they have a insiduious motives to advance Islam in America
-All Muslims everywhere only desire to spread Islam
-Muslims don't want to assimilate in the US
-Muslims are not patriotic

She makes bigoted, and false claims constantly

How would one know that MV is full of poo you may ask?

Because there is clear obvious to the contrary

for example, [url="http://www.muslimsforbush.com/"]http://www.muslimsforbush.com/[/url]

Once again MV's inane bigoted ranting are wrong.

What a shock.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1668805' date='Oct 2 2008, 09:07 PM']You are wrong to say that. I respect your oppinion, however you are wrong to generalize like that and I suspect that deep down you know it.[/quote]

I wasn't being general. I was specifically talking about the person I was when 911 happened. I used a wheelchair, and at times barely got out of bed. I produced nothing, I did nothing. I was completely broken in spirit by my injuries. 911 made me realize that I was exactly the kind of person that the terrorists would have said was wrong with America. I've been walking for 4 years now November 2nd. I'm productive, I'm active, I've gone back to school, but I have no allusions as to the person I'd let myself become. Any Muslim, any Catholic, any human back then would have taken one look at me and been disgusted and had the opinion that I was a waste of oxygen.

[Hassan]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1668867' date='Oct 2 2008, 10:09 PM']I wasn't being general. I was specifically talking about the person I was when 911 happened. I used a wheelchair, and at times barely got out of bed. I produced nothing, I did nothing. I was completely broken in spirit by my injuries. 911 made me realize that I was exactly the kind of person that the terrorists would have said was wrong with America. I've been walking for 4 years now November 2nd. I'm productive, I'm active, I've gone back to school, but I have no allusions as to the person I'd let myself become. Any Muslim, any Catholic, any human back then would have taken one look at me and been disgusted and had the opinion that I was a waste of oxygen.[/quote]

"You're right, they would even today, not recognize me as someone sharing their morals."

This is what I'm talking about.

I am very happy for what you managed to overcome however: )