Economic Problems Today Caused By Dems, Starting W/bill Clinton

[princessgianna]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1666884' date='Sep 30 2008, 10:51 AM']+J.M.J.+
anybody else see a ticking bomb here?

[/quote]
yep!

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1667414' date='Oct 1 2008, 12:19 AM']Also, the dems are babied by the Media and all to often get away with all their crimes and abuses. But if repubs sneeze is a two day hit piece.

Just something to think about...[/quote]


I don't know if your just stunningly obstinate or intentionally trying to deceive people.

Here is a hint. Turn off Michael Savage/Sean Hannity/Glenn Beck and read a book on bias in the US Media. Yes there is bias in the US Media it is not, however, bias for the Republicans (exclusing talk radio and Fox) or Democrates (excluding analysis shows on MSNBC).

There are several good books on this, all acadamic, peer reviewed etc.

News: The Politics of Illusion by Bennett is a good one.

As for the current crisis, yes, Democrates share the blame as well. Neither the democrates nor the Republicans are good.

[Hassan]

[quote name='SpareTime' post='1667687' date='Oct 1 2008, 12:30 PM']You're breaking the unwritten forum rule #72..no trying to talk about things as they actually are: when in doubt (or denial) blame everything on the democrats and liberals! [/quote]

To be fair, the Democrat partisans do the same thing with Republicans.

[SpareTime]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1667824' date='Oct 1 2008, 05:13 PM']To be fair, the Democrat partisans do the same thing with Republicans.[/quote]

ah yes, of course. but I was speaking specifically of this forum.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1666841' date='Sep 30 2008, 11:20 AM']I'm a Democrat, and I don't lie. I'm getting ready to fill out my absentee ballot. Thanks for making me feel bad about Republicans right before filling it out.

By the way, President Bush is one of the biggest supporters of the bailout, in case you missed that.

The problem with out country isn't the Republicans or the Democrats, it is partisanship. We should be working together instead of trying to tear each other up.[/quote]


Bush is not very conservative on economics.

A vote for Obama is a sin. Our priorities are Life, Family, Social Justice, Global Solidarity. In that order according to the Bishops.

Obama supports infantcide. Check out the videos on www.ObamaBeenLying.com

The bailout is bad... they're expanding their efforts to increase subprime mortgages.

Banks were forced to take subprime loans by laws enacted by Dem congress or face heavy fines. This is all the dems fault.

Bush and McCain... along with almost every other Rep warned about this years ago.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MartinLuther22' post='1666875' date='Sep 30 2008, 12:38 PM']It is not a convincing video for me or anyone else who was worked over 13 years in safe stable AA rated banks (that didn't make subprime loans), or to anyone who knows how banks are regulated in other parts of the world. It was not the Clinton laws that forced the US banks to give out subprime loans as the video stated. It was the greed of the bank executives and bank lending staff, also the greed of mortgage brokers who were chasing commissions and bonuses. It wasnt the democrats that created and marketed mortgage products with low 2 year honeymoon interest rates followed by higher interest rates. It wasn't the democrats that sold securities backed by subprime mortgages as AAA rated investments. It wasn't the democrats that rated those securities as AAA investments when they obviously were not anywhere near that standard. It wasnt the democrats that offered or accepted subprime mortgage backed securities as collateral for loans. It wasnt the democrats that failed to honour insurance policies they sold on mortgage backed securities or credit default swaps. I doubt that the investment bankers who gambled other peoples money on credit default swaps and other derivatives were democrats. The hedge fund dealers who short sold bank stocks probably weren't democrats either. The primary motive behind all of this has been greed. And greed that has not been in any way controlled by the inadequate financial regulatory system in operation in US. Because so many of you think that any regulation by government is Socialism.

Sub prime loans are only a small part of the current problems. It is much much bigger than that now. US Banks have stopped lending each other money. Credit and Lending has slowed to extremely low levels. Capital markets are drying up as well. Stock prices are at 3 or 4 year lows all around the globe. All foreign exchange trading in US dollars in Asia stopped for a few hours on Thursday two weeks ago as no one wanted to trust the US FX dealers. European Central Banks had to step in with billions to stop the US dollar from collapsing. If the rescue package isn't passed by Congress on Thursday, things will get a lot worse.

The Democrats are not the sole (or even a significant) cause of these problems. It has been the Bush Republican administration that has been responsible for the oversight and regulation of the US financial system for the last 8 years. But being Republican they have been idealogically opposed to any proper regulations being in place - just let the greedy do whatever they want, whatever the consequences. Well you will be paying for the consequences for the next ?? years in your taxes.

But go on - keep blaming the Democrats for everything. I am sure you will. You are just like those Iranians who blame the Americans for the earthquakes in Iran. Maybe it is ironmonk that needs to get educated - about the banking system and how bad this crisis really is (and also about the phorum guidelines)[/quote]

wrong wrong wrong


Ever vote cast on every law is in the voting record on Senate.gov... this all proves you wrong.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited October 2, 2008 by ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Dairy,

Again... you don't know what you're talking about.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[CatherineM]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1668321' date='Oct 2 2008, 08:35 AM']A vote for Obama is a sin. Our priorities are Life, Family, Social Justice, Global Solidarity. In that order according to the Bishops.[/quote]

I said I was a Democrat, but I never said I was voting for Obama. In fact I sent my ballot in yesterday, and I assure you, that of the dozen or so candidates on the Florida ballot, Obama was not my pick.

[MartinLuther22]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1668322' date='Oct 3 2008, 12:37 AM']wrong wrong wrong[/quote]

You are the one who is wrong wrong wrong on this issue. It is the greed of the mortgage brokers, bankers, investment bankers and financial engineers with their CDOs and credit default swaps that has caused this financial crisis not the democrats. The effect of the CRA laws was miniscule compared to the greed of the bankers. Even your mate DonJohn was smart enough to recognise greed in the other thread. But you won't step outside your democrat hating mindset for long enough to see the truth on this issue.

You might be an expert on catholic teaching and US politics generally, but you have a lot to learn about banking and the financial system. Suggest you take your own advice and shut up and get educated (and not from other democrat haters on youtube).

The bailout package is a long way from ideal, is too broad in scope and gives Paulson too much power. However it has been the only viable option in the short timeframe before more banks would have failed, and it should be enough to save a few million US jobs for a few months and get money flowing again so that more businesses and individuals (US and worldwide) can borrow money.

[CatherineM]

Wouldn't it be interesting to have an economy based on selling real things, not paper things, where no one needed to borrow money. Think of how different things would be if it was patriotic to save money rather than our patriotic duty to spend money and buy things to keep the economy going.

[MartinLuther22]

[quote name='MartinLuther22' post='1668379' date='Oct 3 2008, 01:45 AM']Suggest you take your own advice and shut up and get educated (and not from other democrat haters on youtube).[/quote]

To get your re-education started:

From [url="http://mediamatters.org/discuss/200809300012"]http://mediamatters.org/discuss/200809300012[/url]

[indent]I am a realtor and have seen much of what has been happening. I can assure everyone that the worst contributors to this situation have been independent mortgage brokers. They made loans chosen to collect maximum commissions. They sold people on ARMs at high interest rates when the borrowers qualified for a fixed rate at a lower rate. They coached people to tell lies they should put on their applications saying that everyone does it and they can't buy a house otherwise. Also, the brokers lied to the principals funding the loans. I saw this personally and have also heard the same stories from broker employees. Last week a former broker employee told me that his boss prohibited him from accepting fixed rate loan applications because the commission was higher on the more exotic loans.

As to the CRA which is getting this heat - there has NEVER been any law or rule that required anyone to make a loan to a financially unqualified applicant. 75-80% of subprime loans have originated from independent mortgage brokers who are NOT governed by CRA rules anyway. If CRA is at fault, why did it take from 1977 to 2006 for the effects to surface? We have had at least 3 housing downturns in that time.

Beyond the brokers, the actual lenders did not do due diligence on the loans that they were funding. These are the banks and Wall St brokers. They all just wanted their share of the gravy.

As a realtor/advisor, I tried to refer buyers to reputable direct lenders - not brokers. However, most people ignored my advice in favor of going somewhere recommended by a friend or relative.

Direct lenders such as banks who want to sell their loans to Fannie and Freddie are subject to stringent standards such as 20% down and rigorous investigation of the borrowers ability to pay. These are called "conforming" loans.[/indent]

As for your education on the phorum guidelines, I will leave that to the moderators.

[philothea]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1668395' date='Oct 2 2008, 11:11 AM']Wouldn't it be interesting to have an economy based on selling real things, not paper things, where no one needed to borrow money. Think of how different things would be if it was patriotic to save money rather than our patriotic duty to spend money and buy things to keep the economy going.[/quote]
That's how Japan's culture is, at least as far as individuals go. Credit card use is very rare. They put a lot of money into savings.

It doesn't seem to make that big a difference.

It is hard for most people to buy houses, land, cars, or start up businesses, without credit. I think most high-technology would be impossible. A fabrication plant to build an integrated circuit costs a billion dollars...

[CatherineM]

[quote name='MartinLuther22' post='1668414' date='Oct 2 2008, 10:58 AM']To get your re-education started:

From [url="http://mediamatters.org/discuss/200809300012"]http://mediamatters.org/discuss/200809300012[/url]

[indent]I am a realtor and have seen much of what has been happening. I can assure everyone that the worst contributors to this situation have been independent mortgage brokers.[/quote]

I saw a lot of that happen in St. Pete. Guys would show up at a little old lady's house, tell her the roof needed fixing, but they'd arrange a loan and arrange the roofer. She signed the documents, if the roofer showed up at all, he'd do a horrible job, and then she'd end up losing her home because the loan was for $100,000 instead of the $10,000 she thought. The mortgage brokers would sign up homeless people on loans for houses they were going to flip, get the appraisers to go way over on actually value so they could pocket the difference between appraisal and sale price, and when the bubble burst, they started having to foreclose. They are starting to catch some of them and put them in jail, but just the tip of the iceberg.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='MartinLuther22' post='1668379' date='Oct 2 2008, 11:45 AM']You are the one who is wrong wrong wrong on this issue. It is the greed of the mortgage brokers, bankers, investment bankers and financial engineers with their CDOs and credit default swaps that has caused this financial crisis not the democrats. The effect of the CRA laws was miniscule compared to the greed of the bankers. Even your mate DonJohn was smart enough to recognise greed in the other thread. But you won't step outside your democrat hating mindset for long enough to see the truth on this issue.

You might be an expert on catholic teaching and US politics generally, but you have a lot to learn about banking and the financial system. Suggest you take your own advice and shut up and get educated (and not from other democrat haters on youtube).

The bailout package is a long way from ideal, is too broad in scope and gives Paulson too much power. However it has been the only viable option in the short timeframe before more banks would have failed, and it should be enough to save a few million US jobs for a few months and get money flowing again so that more businesses and individuals (US and worldwide) can borrow money.[/quote]


It is a FACT that banks would face fines if they did not have a certain percentage of sub prime loans.

People who have sub prime loans should have NEVER received those loans. The gov forced banks to relax their underwriting... give home loans to people who have poor credit... some very poor.

Fannie and Freddy had all kinds of loans from people with bad credit... banks then would buy these loans from Fannie and Freddy.

Fannie and Freddy CEO's lied about what they where paid. Fannie and Freddy paid senators hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep from getting regulated.

[url="http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html"]http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/up...nd-freddie.html[/url]


"Greed" is irrelevant... it's not illegal. These senators are who are to blame. "Greed" cannot be regulated...

Marxist and communist policies have no place in a free market. The gov is not the answer for all of society's woes.

FACT: If banks were not FORCED to get sub prime loans AND we would have started drilling in ANWR and the coastal shelf... Our economy would be very strong right now.

This bail out plan is a JOKE! The bail out plan is limiting tax deductions on any domestic oil and gas production... Do you realize what that means?! They're punishing companies for trying to help us be energy independent. There are many earmarks which are really bad.

Our economy is roughly 40% better than it was ten years ago, and roughly 15% better than it was five years ago. Unemployment is at a modest rate.

Interesting article...
Roots of the Crisis
[url="http://www.reason.com/news/show/129158.html"]http://www.reason.com/news/show/129158.html[/url]


The subprime market wouldn't have been so huge if it wasn't for the dem senators that pushed the laws on the banks.

Take a few macroeconomic classes, spend quite a few hours going through the votes and bills on Senate.gov, see where the money is flowing to/coming from, and sifting through news articles... you'll learn a lot.


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited October 3, 2008 by ironmonk

[Didymus]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1668963' date='Oct 3 2008, 12:05 AM']"Greed" cannot be regulated...[/quote]

wanna bet?