Heresy...at Church?!

[johnnydigit]

lots of employees at Catholic schools don't seem very Catholic at all. their authorities seem more like secular business people. even the parents, teachers and children around here seem to be devoid of what our church is severely lacking - basic catechesis on our faith.. *sigh*

the leaders just don't take the faith seriously at all. there is a severe lack of the spiritual. like you said, Matthew 16 and the "gates of the netherworld" means pretty much nothing to them. they are just thinking practically, "as man does, and not as God does". it's about the numbers and the money they get from each student, not about relying on faith in God.

i remember reading about a school where they want a free Catholic education for everyone, so they rely on the community and keep it affordable for every student. despite their dire financial situation, somehow God is keeping them afloat. they have faith. call me a hopeless romantic, but isn't this how we are supposed to be?

[eagle_eye222001]

Here is my experience with Catholic Education.

-Tuition goes up 8%-10% a year.

-We talk about being Christ-centered and get caught-being-Christ-like slips which you use as raffle tickets for school dollars to buy extra recess or dress-down days.

-If you want friends, act tough, do popular stuff, and maybe then we will acknowledge you.

-Religious education: uhhhhhhhh, I forgot.

Here is my family's experience with public education

-tuition: free

-easier to make friends

-more Christian friendly environment (not lying. We found the public schools to have nicer kids in general). Even the Christmas productions had songs from different religions (Christianity, Judaism, etc)

____________________

Now, what is public or private better? Better yet, can the Open-to-Life-from-God parents of 8 children afford Catholic education for 8 kids - grade school and high school? NO. It is way to expensive. Only the cafateria Catholic families of Closed-Life-to-God with 2 kids can afford Catholic education and generally both parents need jobs.

Basically, the families that really try to live out the Catholic lifestyle CANNOT afford Catholic education and the families with the controlled two kids CAN. This is a problem and provides great ammo for people who want to say the Catholic Church only caters to the rich.

I know some families cannot have as many kids as they are open too and I know some families like this...so I am not picking on them by any means...I was just generalizing for brevity.

If Catholic education had any pluses in the past......their gone now. The state of Catholic education, especially religious education on Catholicism has lost its wings and is beginning to call MAYDAY!

The reality is kids get confirmed, get out...and you never see them at mass again. Why?

When I was enrolled in the 6th grade at my parish grade school, there were waiting lists for every grade. Now, there is one grade with one class and pretty much all the rest have room.

I see two big problems...

The Catholic faith is not being taught effectively AND parents are not helping their kids learn the faith and instead rely exclusively on the schools to teach the faith.

After 7 years of Catholic education, I could not defend any of my beliefs and had pretty much forgotten everything. 95% of what I know about my faith is due to my own initiative.

Don't get me wrong, my parents are true Catholics and they do promote Catholicism in the family (weekly mass, family rosary, active participation in religious holidays), so I had discipline for the faith so after I was confirmed, I began to seriously look at my faith. Isn't that backwards? You become confirmed and then you look at your faith closer? Anyway, I was a disciplined acting Catholic but I lacked depth.

There was a Protestant guy who was in my class in high school and during the summer of junior year, we debated a few time. I lost pretty badly . Why? I had 6 years of Catholic education. Difference? He knew his faith. I didn't What wasn't I taught? Rather, what was being taught to me?

Kids grow up. Get confirmed, meet Protestant, Protestant rattles of 2-3 verses, Catholic kids goes "ahhhhhhhhhhh....Bible....what's that ? and then go to non-denominational church for cookies and chips after the service.


Sorry but I have a cousin who started to go to another church (non-denominational) and the big raving part of it was the chips and cookies after the service. I have seen the Catholic faith deteriorate ridiculously on both sides of my family. Why? Cuz no one knows why they are Catholic.


The only reason the Catholic number in the U.S. are not seriously declining are because of Hispanic immigrants.

The Hispanics are coming in Catholic and the white people are losing big-time and falling to "convenient" churches. Churches where it pretty much all goes as long as everyone is smiling and singing by the

I think kids need to learn the Catechism and there needs to be greater emphasis on basic Apologetics.

The Catholic Church is not losing on theological grounds...it's losing horribly on lack of BASIC Catholic Apologetics and lack of Catechism knowledge.

I am probably preaching to the choir on this though.

If this post sounded like a person severely frustrated with his family's Catholic Education Experience ...you read well.

I am sorry to say this...but public education has been better than private education for my family. That is a fact. If Catholic education wants to continue and survive...something must be done.

You may be out of so I will stop here. I think I may have rambled just a bit. It is time I

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Pontifex' post='1666119' date='Sep 28 2008, 11:28 PM']I am completely for Catholic Education. Regardless of any need for strengthening of the Religious cirriculum, the fact remains that at a Catholic school you can pray, talk about your faith, and go to mass during the week. At a public school the government has complete control and with the way things are looking that is a very scary reality. We need to support our Catholic schools because they are a better alternative to public, secularized, godless institutions that poison our youth with relativism.

Having said that, I understand the need for reform in Catholic education but we shouldn't turn our back on it. I'm dealing with that right now. In my observance, people simply don't want to make the sacrifices necesarry to keep Catholic schools open, but they are indeed worth it. Even the watered down version of Catholic education is worth saving.

Proud Pastor of struggling school,

Fr. Burns[/quote]

indeed Father, we should support them, but then i'm seeing a trend where the strongest families are turning to home schooling. honestly if i were to raise i family, i'd home school them as well, as i'd just be too terrified to send them anywhere around here..

we pray for our Catholic schools, especially your struggling school. on the bright side i guess if you weren't struggling, you wouldn't be as close to Christ!

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='MandyKhatoon' post='1666120' date='Sep 29 2008, 01:43 AM']I think this is why we should pray for more vocations within the Church, especially to the Dominican Communities or to any community that teaches. That way we'll have great Catholic schools being taught by awesome women in habit [/quote]

A very possible solution and like-able solution. I like this idea as you get actual Catholics in the classroom (yes, I had non-Catholics at my grade school-granted the religion teacher was Catholic but still) and it helps with the finances of the school.

My Mom has mentioned to me she hopes to see this happen...and I agree. This is a definitive partial solution to the Catholic school crises. Along with more emphasis on Catechism and Apologetics.......come on just basic stuff so a Protestant can't just walk all over us. It's amazing the number of arguments against the Church that hang on verse and is refuted by like 20.

[Excelsior1027]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1666132' date='Sep 29 2008, 03:28 AM']indeed Father, we should support them, but then i'm seeing a trend where the strongest families are turning to home schooling. honestly if i were to raise i family, i'd home school them as well, as i'd just be too terrified to send them anywhere around here..[/quote]
That's what I was going to say. I've been home-schooled all my life, and now that I take my faith seriously, I'm ever thankful to my parents for making that decision. I can honestly say I have no desire to go to a public, private, or Catholic school.

[goldenchild17]

As an outsider looking in I don't know all the details, but I do think a lot of the problems could be solved by returning the Catholic schools to a system where they are taught by religious sisters and priests.

[Didacus]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1665739' date='Sep 28 2008, 01:37 PM']I'm in the Diocese of Camden, so I know what you're going through, though I'm not sure it's that bad down here. CCD is terrible...all I learned in eight years was that Jesus loves me, parables, sexual sins are wrong, and prayers I can parrot at you in my sleep. And they wonder why every single person, self included, fell away after Confirmation? It should have never happened.

Pray for the Church in Jersey. Heck, pray for it everywhere--it scares me that I'm often the only one under 30 at the Saturday night Mass...[/quote]


I agree full heartidly. If only during high school at least they would teach some theology and explain the teachings (reasoning behind the teachings, not jsut the teachings themselves) - young adults would graduate from highschool with such firmer and stronger faith.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Domine ut Videam' post='1666091' date='Sep 28 2008, 10:18 PM']While, I wouldn't go so far as to call this heresy, if it truly bothers you then I would bring it up with the Archbishop. As philothea said, you got our bishop (meyers) and he is solid. I'm pretty sure he won't allow any funny business to go on in his Diocese(s). Your parish will be in my prayers.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
agreed. if you are upset, HisChild, go to your priest, and then your bishop, then your archbishop, and on up the line.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1665740' date='Sep 28 2008, 02:37 PM']No, she was actually saying that if the younger generation doesn't get educated in the Catholic school system, Catholicism will be wiped out.

Our parish wouldn't suffer if they closed the school. There's rarely any young people at Mass anyway, it's adults who make up our parish pews.[/quote]


Well the Catholic School system in the Untied States was founded to prevent exactly that. I would say it depends what you mean by wiped out. Christ promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail, but not that they wouldn't beat the tarnation out of her. Would you say 50 people hiding in a cave when Christ comes agian would be a Church that was wiped out. I probably would, going from a 1,000,000,000 to 50, but Christ promise would have still been kept.


I looked at this expecting to see something really scary, I mean I have heard Panthiesm and Monism preached from the pulpit, this is mearly a biit over the top.

I think your principal had a poor choice of words, but was largly right. Priest should get up from the pulpit and tell their parish members that they are OBLIGED to send there children to Catholic school. I would prefer that they do what they used to and delare it a mortal sin not to, but I know that that is unlikely.


Unfortuantly as a Catholic school teacher I had to make a choice, teach at one or send my children to one, so I went over to the dark side and am now in a Public school.

I would sooner die than send my children to the Moral hellhole that the public schools are. Make no mistake the Public School system is here to make you good obediant citizens, it is opposed to Catholicism just as the Liberal Democratic system it supports is .

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1666247' date='Sep 29 2008, 11:37 AM']As an outsider looking in I don't know all the details, but I do think a lot of the problems could be solved by returning the Catholic schools to a system where they are taught by religious sisters and priests.[/quote]


Well we would need a lot more sisters and priest.


And the most liberal theology i was ever taught was by nuns.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1666255' date='Sep 29 2008, 12:01 PM']I agree full heartidly. If only during high school at least they would teach some theology and explain the teachings (reasoning behind the teachings, not jsut the teachings themselves) - young adults would graduate from highschool with such firmer and stronger faith.[/quote]


Wow, this is so weird to me, even what I concidered very very sad Catholic high schools, taught such things in high school. I spent years fighting the "religion class is the only reason for our existance" fight. But even in the schools that I concidered very soft on religion students came out knowing quite a bit of theology. The good ones, well I used to know as choold that the 6th graders new the Old Testement ( which was 6th grade religion) better than most priest. Of course you could fail religion there too, it was not a fluff course.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Mari Therese' post='1665820' date='Sep 28 2008, 04:10 PM']My catholic high school was terrible. I lost my Faith there...I should of stayed in public school. Archbishop Fulton Sheen was right, "If you want [your children] to lose their faith, send them to Catholic school."[/quote]


Did you go in Canada? The schools are quite differant there do to the Government funded school system.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Pontifex' post='1666119' date='Sep 29 2008, 01:28 AM']I am completely for Catholic Education. Regardless of any need for strengthening of the Religious cirriculum, the fact remains that at a Catholic school you can pray, talk about your faith, and go to mass during the week. At a public school the government has complete control and with the way things are looking that is a very scary reality. We need to support our Catholic schools because they are a better alternative to public, secularized, godless institutions that poison our youth with relativism.

Having said that, I understand the need for reform in Catholic education but we shouldn't turn our back on it. I'm dealing with that right now. In my observance, people simply don't want to make the sacrifices necesarry to keep Catholic schools open, but they are indeed worth it. Even the watered down version of Catholic education is worth saving.

Proud Pastor of struggling school,

Fr. Burns[/quote]



Bless you father, I have seen few Pastors who wupported there schools, most don't want to be trouble with them.
I agree with you about people not wanting to make sacrifices.

I was really disgusted to hear people tell me that they couldn't afford to send there child to Catholic school, and then see them in there 40,000 dollar SUV.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1666402' date='Sep 29 2008, 03:44 PM']I was really disgusted to hear people tell me that they couldn't afford to send there child to Catholic school, and then see them in there 40,000 dollar SUV.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
exactly! or people who complain they don't have the money who have cable and internet and cell phones (and of course, every child has one too, donchaknow?), expensive cars, name brand clothing, name brand food (versus store brand), etc. etc. people simply do not know how to make sacrifices, especially when it counts (like their children's education!). i fully expect to give up a lot of things so that my children can have a good Catholic education - which in my city is a lot better (not great though) than the horror stories told here.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Pontifex' post='1666119' date='Sep 29 2008, 01:28 AM']I am completely for Catholic Education. Regardless of any need for strengthening of the Religious cirriculum, the fact remains that at a Catholic school you can pray, talk about your faith, and go to mass during the week. At a public school the government has complete control and with the way things are looking that is a very scary reality. We need to support our Catholic schools because they are a better alternative to public, secularized, godless institutions that poison our youth with relativism.[/quote]
Father, while this may be the case in parts of the country, it has not been in my experience. At my school there are several Christian organizations and multiple events (FCA, See You At The Pole both come to mind) in which one is free to pray and to talk about his faith. As a matter of fact, where I come from, we seem to have a problem with teachers erring on the side of being so-called "Bible thumpers" than we do being secular and liberal.