Which Might Be The Hardest Vow?

[Mari Therese]

Obedience for me. But I remember that even though it may be difficult, God gives his brides the grace to faithfully live their vocation, and we in turn must make the choice to cooperate with that grace.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Mari Therese' post='1661065' date='Sep 22 2008, 01:48 PM']Obedience for me. But I remember that even though it may be difficult, God gives his brides the grace to faithfully live their vocation, and we in turn must make the choice to cooperate with that grace.[/quote]

Totally needed to be reminded that.

[DameAgnes]

Every religious I've ever spoken with has told me that Obedience is the hardest vow, but also the richest, if lived out.

They're all difficult and challenging vows, mind you, but they've all said poverty is the easiest, obedience - giving up their will to another - the most difficult, with chastity being a constant.

[DiscerningSoul]

Obedience

[Saint Therese]

Perhaps poverty is the easiest because a lot of communities practice of "poverty" is liberally intepreted. I wish Ilived aswell as some religious.

[the lords sheep]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1662450' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:38 AM']Perhaps poverty is the easiest because a lot of communities practice of "poverty" is liberally intepreted. I wish Ilived aswell as some religious.[/quote]

I would like it would be different order to order, and at different stages of formation. If you are living poverty such as Mother Teresa envisions it, which is a very hard-core material poverty as well as a spiritual poverty (like little to no contact with family or friends), I would imagine that would be very difficult at times (especially in the beginning or anytime anything happens in the family's life or the Sister's life.)
I think chastity, for me, would be difficult not in a physical or lusting way, but in an emotional way. For example, while I'm single right now and very happy, I sometimes miss having someone physical there for support/comfort and love. I know, however, that there are times when married couples feel lonely as well, and that this isn't only experienced by single people or religious.

That said, I think obedience will be very tough for me, cuz I'm so darn hard-headed!


For the communities that take a fourth vow, it's my experience that Sisters find this vow to be the easiest, mostly because the vow expresses in someway the charism, and, well, that particular charism is what drew them to that particular community.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

[AccountDeleted]

All three vows are difficult if practiced with complete interior mortification. There are two types of observance of the vows, exterior and interior.

Exterior obedience is relatively easy - even people in the military can do this (or at a job) but interior obedience means doing it without the whole interior battle going on - and this is much harder. It actually requires an act of will to stop the interior chatter and to accept what is being asked with "holy indifference". I was able to comply with everything that was asked of me in Carmel, but often I couldn't stop the whole interior dialogue and argument that ensued in my own head (justifications, rationalizations, explanations etc etc etc). I think that this is just something that one needs to work at continually over time, like a stone being polished or sand being pounded by waves. There is an incredible freedom in obedience when it is being done to follow the will of God.

As for chastity, once again the external is probably easier to maintain, especially in an environment where there is no temptation. As one poster wrote, sometimes it isn't so much the lustful thoughts that bother one, as the romantic ones - the dreams and desires for romantic love. At this point, what is required is a deep, personal love for Our Lord, and the recognition that when we have these thoughts, we are being unfaithful to Him as our beloved and spouse. Being in the world there are many temptations against chastity, so it is very important to maintain custody of the senses at all times, and to avoid all occasions of temptation, even of a seemingly innocent nature (such as daydreams about romantic love). For a religious, Jesus is the source of all love, including romantic!

Poverty doesn't just mean not having things, or even not owning things (having all in common), but it also means "poverty of spirit" -- and if one can truly have this, it will help with obedience and with chastity as well. Total reliance on the generosity and kindness of the Lord and none on oneself, is a good way to practice poverty of spirit. Everything that comes then, is a gift from Him, and anything that doesn't come, is not required because He has not provided it.

These vows are the essence of religious life, but even lay people often undertake some (modified) form of them, to enhance their relationship with the Lord. They are difficult of course, but who said being holy would be easy? And isn't He just worth more than anything else?

[EWIE]

[quote name='nunsense' date='Sep 24 2008, 09:42 AM' post='1662636']
There are two types of observance of the vows, exterior and interior.

VERY comprehensive reply Nunsense.

Did you ever get a reply from the Texas Poor Clares?

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='EWIE' post='1662964' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:46 PM']VERY comprehensive reply Nunsense.

Did you ever get a reply from the Texas Poor Clares?[/quote]

Nope - but then I figured the hurricane probably made them evacuate the convent - and who knows if they ever got any of their voicemail or email after that! I have just decided that God doesn't want me to contact them - lol

Edited September 24, 2008 by nunsense

[tinytherese]

I'd say that chastity is the second hardest vow for me. I remember before I consented to discerning the first time I heard that nuns and religious to marry Our Lord. At first, that just sounded too weird to me. Then I found it rather nice. I don't know how many times Jesus proposed to me. I must have the record for most times turning down a marriage proposal from the same man.

I said yes eventually. We've been through a lot during the years of our unofficial engagement. I'm not mature enough on multiple levels to be His bride yet, but things will get better. What's really a struggle for me is that apart from the eucharist, He isn't tangible. I mean other gals can actually see, touch (not perversely just you know like hugging and holding hands,) and HEAR WITH THEIR OWN EARS what their man is saying to them. We have to discern what He is saying to us, or if He is speaking with words at all.

[EJames2]

Holy Obedience( perseverance)

PAX

[Domine ut Videam]

upon further reflection I also think poverty. e.g. a spirit of poverty. While, actual physical poverty might not be as challenging, keeping a spirt of poverty is something i might struggle with.

[VeniteAdoremus]

Well, it should be an easy question for me, since Dominicans only take one vow (obedience, which contains all others).

I honestly can't say right now what will be the most difficult. There will probably be periods. At first, I suspect it will be poverty - since a postulant is "eased" into the life in many aspects, but all my books go at the same time! And I'm also very attached to my bed. It doubles as a sofa, so I have like six pillows (on a single-sized bed!), and I'm very much used to snuggling into them, especially if I'm not feeling too well. So I'll definitely miss that.

Chastity will probably kick in a bit later - when I realise that no, there [i]really[/i] isn't going to be that one person for whom the highlight of his life is coming home to me Like tinytherese said - Jesus isn't tangible the way a man is. He can't give you a hug. And He [i]probably[/i] won't leave you a little note saying "I love you".

But at the same time, I see this as one of the things with the most... what's the word. Potential? In my student choir, we once sang a long motet called "The Praises of Kierkegaard", and one of things that really stuck with me is how he wrote "Father in Heaven - longing is Thy gift".

This is a big, identifiable part of longing. We know that it's natural, we know where it's coming from and we have a theoretical idea of how to deal with it. In that aspect, as others have also said, it might even be easier than the day-to-day things where you have to "catch" yourself struggling, where you have to pay attention to keep inviting God's grace to help you through your problems.

Edit: grammar

Edited September 29, 2008 by VeniteAdoremus

[icelandic_iceskater]

I think I'm in the majority here- the hardest vow for me would def be obedience. I've always been more on the rebellious side, I generally to do exactly the opposite of what authority tells me to do. Thats the main reason I've always felt that I'm not called to religious life. But now that I think of it, it would def call me to a greater conversion. Hmmm.

I never knew that about exterior/interior obedience! Thats interesting. The interior obedience would be the hardest, def something I need to work on starting now. lol.

[TradMom]

Praised be Jesus Christ!

Obedience......

When Daughter One was discerning, we visited a beautiful, traditional community in California. FULL Habit...apostolic work. One of the wonderful sisters we met had a completely secular name...and let me think of how to illustrate this without giving away who this was....her name was "Sister Cindy". When she told us her name, both of us were SHOCKED. Cindy?! Who ever heard of a saint Cindy?! I said, "Sister, what an unusual name!" She said, "I know." "I wanted to be named Mary Margaret - more than anything, because I had a great devotion to Saint Mary Margaret, and the Sacred Heart, but I got Cindy." And I said, "I never heard of a Saint Cindy, there must be some other meaning for your name, right?" And she said, "Oh, yes. I was named after a Benefactor. She left the community a great deal of money with the stipulation that someone be named after her." We ended up having a conversation about it, and clearly, all these years later (I would say she was in her fifties) she still didn't like her name. But. There she was, doing her work with grace and love, and being honest about her name...I appreciated that she was honest both with how she was named and how she felt about it. But more than anything, I appreciated how she stuck with the community, how she lived her life of prayer, sacrifice and work, and how - even though carrying a name through life that she didn't connect with or even like - she did so out of great humility and obedience. My daughter and I talked about it, and in our hotel room that evening, we laughed about what a fit we would have had - knowing our own tempers would have flared terribly - at the very least as you give your whole life and everything up - one would want a befitting name from one's heart! It was a great lesson for both of us, though certainly more for my daughter, who had a first hand encounter of obedience at that moment. Most likely, "Sister Cindy" was chosen for this special task because she was the one that was most able to handle it. I pray for that Sister daily. I stopped praying that she would be okay with her name and began praying that I would have a better understanding of obedience and grace in my life, with a stoic smile and courage - like her. All of us are called to obedience; religious or not...

TradMom

Edited September 30, 2008 by TradMom