Vatican: Guess What, Darwin? Evolution Is Ok

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Majella' post='1658737' date='Sep 19 2008, 02:58 AM']I don't believe Creationism and evolution are compatible! The "Big Bang"; Humans evolving from apes; etc?
The modernists in the Church are still active!!!![/quote]
Just a side note, but I'm pretty sure the Big Bang theory is distinct from evolution. It was also postulated by a Catholic priest.

Oh, and, if I understand correctly, the argument isn't that humans evolved from apes, but that both have a common ancestor. I'm not giving a judgment on evolution, just stating a clarification as to what it says.

[Theologian in Training]

The article is misleading, inferring that the Church is saying "Darwinian Evolution" is OK, when it was clearly built on atheistic ideals, it seems to me what was said, was has been said the whole time, a re-iteration of "theistic evolution" not "theistic Darwinism" is OK.

Consequently, when Darwin revealed his theory, in a PBS interview, he likened it to committing murder. He knew full well what he was doing but did it anyway. He took the same theory as William Paley, and instead of putting a creator in the theory took Him out and put chance and "randomness" in its place.

"It is like confessing to a murder."
-- Charles Darwin, quoted from the press release for the PBS television series Evolution with the comment, "For 21 years, Charles Darwin kept his theory of evolution secret from all but a few friends"

[SpareTime]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1660589' date='Sep 21 2008, 03:32 PM']The article is misleading, inferring that the Church is saying "Darwinian Evolution" is OK, when it was clearly built on atheistic ideals, it seems to me what was said, was has been said the whole time, a re-iteration of "theistic evolution" not "theistic Darwinism" is OK.

Consequently, when Darwin revealed his theory, in a PBS interview, he likened it to committing murder. He knew full well what he was doing but did it anyway. He took the same theory as William Paley, and instead of putting a creator in the theory took Him out and put chance and "randomness" in its place.

"It is like confessing to a murder."
-- Charles Darwin, quoted from the press release for the PBS television series Evolution with the comment, "For 21 years, Charles Darwin kept his theory of evolution secret from all but a few friends"[/quote]

now you are the one being misleading. I seriously doubt he meant it was like committing murder(he doesn't say that, you do. he uses the words "like confessing murder"), as in, morally wrong, but rather, like CONFESSING murder. He knew that people would be shocked and aghast that he would state such a thing, by thing I mean a disbelief in God. He knew that people would shun him and his idea, and that there would be retaliation, which is why he kept it a secret for so long.

Edited September 30, 2008 by SpareTime

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='SpareTime' post='1667022' date='Sep 30 2008, 03:59 PM']now you are the one being misleading. I seriously doubt he meant it was like committing murder(he doesn't say that, you do. he uses the words "like confessing murder"), as in, morally wrong, but rather, like CONFESSING murder. He knew that people would be shocked and aghast that he would state such a thing, by thing I mean a disbelief in God. He knew that people would shun him and his idea, and that there would be retaliation, which is why he kept it a secret for so long.[/quote]

OK then, from an introduction to his [i]Origin of Species[/i] by George Levine: "When he privately announced his theory to his very good friend, the botanist Joseph Hooker, he wrote that it was 'like committing murder.'" (p. xix)

"As he wrote in a letter, he felt like he was "committing murder." [url="http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/308305"]http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/308305[/url]

"The term "natural selection" first appears in a sketch from 1842, although earlier notes make clear he had discovered the process by the late 1830s. He understood that he was generating a concept that would be of gigantic significance. In a letter written to Joseph Hooker in 1844, Darwin alludes to clues he had seen a decade earlier, and then, almost against his will ("it is like committing a murder"), he discloses his extraordinary evolutionary views." [url="http://www.nysun.com/arts/how-evolution-evolved/23261/"]http://www.nysun.com/arts/how-evolution-evolved/23261/[/url]

So, am I really being that misleading? In fact, maybe it would be more fair to say that PBS was the one who was being misleading.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Theologian in Training

[puellapaschalis]

As I understood it, there isn't a problem with evolution. Human polygenesis, on the other hand....

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Majella' post='1658737' date='Sep 18 2008, 10:58 PM']I don't believe Creationism and evolution are compatible! The "Big Bang"; Humans evolving from apes; etc?
The modernists in the Church are still active!!!![/quote]

The theistic version of evolution simply says that the animal homo sapien would have evolved from an earlier ape-like creature, and at some point along that timeline, God implanted a soul into a male and female homo sapien, and thus the human race was born. And if you're Catholic, you believe Adam and Eve were the first two humans (it's open to debate for Protestants, but the Church says they literally existed).

The interesting thing is when Cain was cursed to wander the earth, God also provided protection for him from others who might kill him. Now, if Adam and Eve were the only other people on earth, who would kill Cain? The theory of evolution also provides a possible solution to the inbreeding problem among Adam and Eve's children that atheists and agnostics often like to point out.

Of course, I don't expect we'll ever know the answers to all these questions, but the point is no scientific theory can affect theistic religion any more than a theory of physics can affect the rules of English grammar.

Edited October 2, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[KnightofChrist]

This is my problem with any evolutionist theory that Man came from apes. Adam and Eve where not simply the first humans but our first parents, the Church teaches this as fact, that God created two persons and they where our first parents. The problem with this is that if in fact Adam and Eve came from apes, this would make the apes, or any descending lower beings up the chain our first parents not Adam and Eve.

Simply because a lower being gives birth to a higher being does not take away the parenthood of the lower being. The most perfect example I can think of is our Blessed Mother, she is the Mother of God, Jesus Christ, she is and was a lower being than Christ but did not lose her parenthood to Christ, the higher being.

[Guest danchinn]

Might I suggest reading a book called [u]Creation and Evolution[/u]

It's from Ignatius Press and is a book containing the conferences recently held with Benedict XVI. We are reading it in our Social and Behavioral Sciences class at the seminary I attend. It sheds a lot of light on this whole subject and although I would like to give more information here, the book does a much better job. Be prepared to do some heavy biological reading but especially read the Appendix.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1669748' date='Oct 3 2008, 09:51 PM']This is my problem with any evolutionist theory that Man came from apes. Adam and Eve where not simply the first humans but our first parents, the Church teaches this as fact, that God created two persons and they where our first parents. The problem with this is that if in fact Adam and Eve came from apes, this would make the apes, or any descending lower beings up the chain our first parents not Adam and Eve.

Simply because a lower being gives birth to a higher being does not take away the parenthood of the lower being. The most perfect example I can think of is our Blessed Mother, she is the Mother of God, Jesus Christ, she is and was a lower being than Christ but did not lose her parenthood to Christ, the higher being.[/quote]

Well, that's an interesting argument. The only counterpoint that comes to my mind right now is that Adam and Eve still retain their role as our first parents because they were the first animal species to whom God granted a soul, thus giving them a dignity higher than animals, and the ability to live in true communion with God.

Of course, all that's really being said in the greater scheme of things, is that the scientific theory of evolution does not contradict Christian philosophy. We are free to believe it or reject it, and personally I don't think it matters so much what we believe on matters like this as much as knowing [i]why[/i] we believe it.

[quote name='danchinn' post='1669986' date='Oct 4 2008, 12:31 AM']Might I suggest reading a book called [u]Creation and Evolution[/u][/quote]

Sounds like fun! It's on my Amazon wish list!