St. Peter And The Fight For The Keys

[eagle_eye222001]

Matthew 16:18-19
[i]
18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell will never overpower it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.' [/i]

We as Catholics believe this is Jesus appointing Peter to be the first pope, but obviously not everyone believes this or we would all be going to the same church if we believed in Jesus.

How do other Christian denominations interpret this passage and how do they back their interpretation up?

[fides quarens intellectum]

One interpretation i've heard is that Jesus was only talking to Peter - not to anyone else. Thus, when Peter died, verse 19 wouldn't apply to anyone else.

[CatherineM]

Most church's ignore it. They don't preach on a rotation of scripture like we do. Mostly, they preach on what they want to, and just never get around to this section.

[MilesJesu]

It is difficult to correctly articulate the many divergent interpretations of "the keys" as understood by various Protestant denominations. In my experience, it appears that if a generalization were to be made, you use the one previously mentioned:

1. Peter was given the keys, but when he died, that was it.

2. Another is that the "keys" are really the "Good News." If some sinnner accepts the Good News, then they can go to heaven, if not, than not.

3. This whole section is grouped under "bind and loose" and is then given to all the other disciples in Mt 18.

Although there are many other possibilities, these are the most common ones I have encountered.

Peace,

MilesJesu

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1655743' date='Sep 15 2008, 07:23 AM']Matthew 16:18-19.

..

How do other Christian denominations interpret this passage and how do they back their interpretation up?[/quote]


Very differently.

[Church Punk]

I have heard it interpeted like so...
18 So I now say to you: You are Peter - Interpeted from the Greek as meaning small rock refering to Peter as a small rock.

..and on this Rock - Interpeted from the Greek as meaning a large rock, by which Jesus is refering to himself....I will build my Church.

This interpetation seems to jive to the untrained eye... Especially since I am not an expert in Greek or even know anything in Greek. But this interpetation is not consistant with the rest of scripture.

Many times it is demonstrated where Peter speaks on behalf of all the apostles and / or when Jesus pulls peter by him self and asks him questions concerning the whole group. He is the head of the apostles...

Mark 8: 29 Then he saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?[b] Peter answering said to him: Thou art the Christ. 30 And he strictly charged them that they should not tell any man of him.[/b]

Matt 14:27 And immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying: Be of good heart: it is I, fear ye not. 28 [b]And Peter making answer, said: Lord, if it be thou, bid me come to thee upon the waters. 29 And he said: Come. And Peter going down out of the boat walked upon the water to come to Jesus[/b]. 30 But seeing the wind strong, he was afraid: and when he began to sink, he cried out, saying: Lord, save me.

John 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to [b]Simon Peter: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.[/b] 16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him:

From the DRV...Feed my sheep. Feed my sheep...[quote]Our Lord had promised the spiritual supremacy to St. Peter; St. Matt. 16. 19; and here he fulfils that promise, by charging him with the superintendency of all his sheep, without exception; and consequently of his whole flock, that is, of his own church.[/quote]

There is many more instances where it is clear that Peter is head of the Church. Paul is even subject to his final say in spiritual matters (circumcision of gentiles...Peter has the final say, Paul had to convince him first).

This distortion of scripture is simply just another classic protestant game. They are really good at it. The take one verse out of context and apply for their own motive. They do not absorb the entire word of God for what it says in conjunction with each verse how it realates to the other.

How this helps.... Check out the defense directory for more info!

Pax

[BG45]

To reiterate CatherineM's point, I never heard this verse even until I thought about converting and was trying to disprove Catholicism.

[Church Punk]

I guess to add to my last post. It is clear with the appointing of Matthias in place of Judas to maintain the apostolic ministry and hold Judas' office. It is clear that the mind of the apostles was to maintain the office at all times, replacing as each passed away. Why could this not be kept for Peter?

Infact it most surely was!

[cmotherofpirl]

Its silly to think God would go to the trouble of putting someone in charge and not think about the need for continuity. Its like accusing the Lord of not having common sense.!

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Church Punk' post='1655893' date='Sep 15 2008, 12:59 PM']I guess to add to my last post. It is clear with the appointing of Matthias in place of Judas to maintain the apostolic ministry and hold Judas' office. It is clear that the mind of the apostles was to maintain the office at all times, replacing as each passed away. Why could this not be kept for Peter?

Infact it most surely was![/quote]

One can also look at the keys and derive succession. When I bought my house I recieved a set of keys that gave me control, access, and authority. I can delegate these as long as I own the house. But when I sell it I will pass these keys on to another. Further evidence of this application of keys can be seen in the direct paralell found in Is 22:22. Isaiha prophesies the taking away of the position of steard from Shebna and giving it to Eliakim. This passage very closely parallels Matt 16:18, with the opening and shutting being equivalent to binding and loosing from what I understand. Well the fact is that this office of steward (which was considered as mouthpeice or voice of the king, see 2 kings 18 when Eliakim goes out and meets the Assyrian King) was a successionary office. I think it had been 400 years of succession from when the office was instituted under David, to when Is 22 took place. Succession was taking place in that office and Jesus quite clearly was putting Peter in a similar office. Jesus of course is a Davidic King.

Blessings

[Church Punk]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1655899' date='Sep 15 2008, 02:10 PM']One can also look at the keys and derive succession. When I bought my house I recieved a set of keys that gave me control, access, and authority. I can delegate these as long as I own the house. But when I sell it I will pass these keys on to another. Further evidence of this application of keys can be seen in the direct paralell found in Is 22:22. Isaiha prophesies the taking away of the position of steard from Shebna and giving it to Eliakim. This passage very closely parallels Matt 16:18, with the opening and shutting being equivalent to binding and loosing from what I understand. Well the fact is that this office of steward (which was considered as mouthpeice or voice of the king, see 2 kings 18 when Eliakim goes out and meets the Assyrian King) was a successionary office. I think it had been 400 years of succession from when the office was instituted under David, to when Is 22 took place. Succession was taking place in that office and Jesus quite clearly was putting Peter in a similar office. Jesus of course is a Davidic King.

Blessings[/quote]

Well put!

[MissyP89]

I have heard that it can't be Peter the Church was built on, because Peter denied Him, and was a sinner.

...Well, that goes for us all, doesn't it?

[thessalonian]

Top 10 excuses I've run in to.
1) Peter can't be the rock - Jesus is the rock. (false dichotomy number 200)
2) Peter's faith is the rock. Doesn't contradict Catholicism but they think it does.
3) Peter is the rock
4) Petros means little stone.
5) The correct translation of the binding and loosing is "whatever you bind ...will have been bound in heaven". Doesn't contradict Catholicism but they think it does.
6) The keys were given to everyone in Matt 18.
7) Peter can't be the rock because Jesus calls him satan in the next chapter of Matt.
8) There is no parallel between Is 22 and matt 16:18. That is an overactive imagination.
9) Jesus is the head of the Church so Peter can't be. false dichtomy number 201.
10) Peter never called himself pope. He even said he was a fellow elder.

[princessgianna]

I know a lady who was Baptist and she was flipping through the channels and EWTN was on
and they were talking about the Holy Eucharist and she was amazed what Catholics believed and how it made so sense!
she was always been told different! as then she started looking up what Catholics believed and was completely amazed!

So now she is Catholic and she is a die hard Catholic so much so she was having marriage trouble and she told her husband that she would do whatever she had to do in order to save their marriage EXCEPT leave the Catholic Faith!
Please Pray for her because on Wednesday she is having her fifth child!

Well anyway she was at a Bible study with her husband and they came upon that verse and the pastor goes "hey i wonder what this means oh well next verse" and just moved on! She wanted to say something but since she was Catholic everyone ignored her though before she tried telling them of the pearl in the fields but they would not hear her out!

[princessgianna]

[quote name='Church Punk' post='1655883' date='Sep 15 2008, 12:49 PM']I have heard it interpeted like so...
18 So I now say to you: You are Peter - Interpeted from the Greek as meaning small rock refering to Peter as a small rock.

..and on this Rock - Interpeted from the Greek as meaning a large rock, by which Jesus is refering to himself....I will build my Church.

This interpetation seems to jive to the untrained eye... Especially since I am not an expert in Greek or even know anything in Greek. But this interpetation is not consistant with the rest of scripture.

Many times it is demonstrated where Peter speaks on behalf of all the apostles and / or when Jesus pulls peter by him self and asks him questions concerning the whole group. He is the head of the apostles...

Mark 8: 29 Then he saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?[b] Peter answering said to him: Thou art the Christ. 30 And he strictly charged them that they should not tell any man of him.[/b]

Matt 14:27 And immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying: Be of good heart: it is I, fear ye not. 28 [b]And Peter making answer, said: Lord, if it be thou, bid me come to thee upon the waters. 29 And he said: Come. And Peter going down out of the boat walked upon the water to come to Jesus[/b]. 30 But seeing the wind strong, he was afraid: and when he began to sink, he cried out, saying: Lord, save me.

John 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to [b]Simon Peter: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.[/b] 16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him:

From the DRV...Feed my sheep. Feed my sheep...

There is many more instances where it is clear that Peter is head of the Church. Paul is even subject to his final say in spiritual matters (circumcision of gentiles...Peter has the final say, Paul had to convince him first).

This distortion of scripture is simply just another classic protestant game. They are really good at it. The take one verse out of context and apply for their own motive. They do not absorb the entire word of God for what it says in conjunction with each verse how it realates to the other.

How this helps.... Check out the defense directory for more info!

Pax[/quote]

I would like to add to your awesome explanation Church Punk! (nice name !)

I as listening to Scott Hahn(God bless him!) and this is what he has to say about it!

Peter really was not used as a name till Christ named him!
And it well known that Christ most likely spoke Aramaic! And in Aramaic peter is totally understood as [i]rock[/i]!
In Greek however rock has a feminine ending, well it is not right to give a guy a girl name so when you add a masculine ending[i] petros [/i] you get Petros which was already a word meaning small stone!

Pax!