Lutheran And Non Demonintaional Christians Will Acheive Salvation

[Guest]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1656208' date='Sep 15 2008, 06:58 PM']Well I'm not sure about "mostly" and even if it did, "mostly" is not good enough. If it is mostly Catholic but hold even one teaching that is different then it is not Catholic. But regardless, I think it's a lot more severe than just that. But my email address is in my profile I think, if you want more in depth about it. I won't address it on the phorum until/unless dUST opens the ideas for discussion. peace[/quote]

this sounds like a secret society
peace to all christians
1

[goldenchild17]

haha. yeah, seems crazy to lots of people. oh well, nothing I can do about that

[Guest]

im crazy so crazy things seem to grab my intrest
such as ufo's and time travel

Edited September 15, 2008 by Guest

[goldenchild17]

I actually like some ufo theories too. Time travel is a cool idea and from what I'm told theoretically interesting, but I don't have the scientific mindset to follow the concepts.

[Guest]

ya im guessen thats how the antichrist will arive....
and mabey how the false rapture will take place ??

[goldenchild17]

haha. yeah maybe

[Guest]

pastor john haggee from texas was just saying on his program the other day how the rapture could take place before the brodcast was over. he is the one that has accused the catholic church of being the whore in revelations. i know he's from texas and has a pretty big congregation.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1652500' date='Sep 10 2008, 07:48 PM']as long as they stay in a loveing, repentent, faithfull relationship with Christ and follow him to the best of their ability.

"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." -CCC, paragraph 818[/quote]

You're drawing a conclusion that isn't specified by the Catechism. Only thing the Catechism says is that Christians born into Protestant churches cannot be charged with "the sin of the separation." But, just like us, they are guilty of other sins and only by the grace of God can anyone be saved. If they are saved, it will be through the Truth which is known through Christ's Church, in spite of the things they believe that are not true.

[Guest]

agreed.
i learned alot in a week, thank you all.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Guest

[mortify]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1652500' date='Sep 10 2008, 06:48 PM']as long as they stay in a loveing, repentent, faithfull relationship with Christ and follow him to the best of their ability.[/quote]

I think the best analogy is that the Catholic church is like the Ark of Noah, and the catechumens, sincerely ignorant pagans and non-Catholic Christians are like people holding on to a rope attached to the Ark.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='mortify' post='1656464' date='Sep 16 2008, 12:07 AM']I think the best analogy is that the Catholic church is like the Ark of Noah, and the catechumens, sincerely ignorant pagans and non-Catholic Christians are like people holding on to a rope attached to the Ark.[/quote]

Hmm... I think someone gave a similar analogy earlier in the thread (maybe the first page). Seems to me you're either in the boat or you're not. Accepting Truth and Love (to the best of your ability) are your ticket on the boat; rejecting them mean you aren't on the boat. Christ didn't create a Church with lifeboats; it [i]is[/i] the lifeboat.

[Selah]

[quote]pastor john haggee from texas was just saying on his program the other day how the rapture could take place before the brodcast was over.[/quote]

sigh...can't stand Hagee...

Edited September 16, 2008 by Selah

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='mortify' post='1656464' date='Sep 15 2008, 09:07 PM']I think the best analogy is that the Catholic church is like the Ark of Noah, and the catechumens, sincerely ignorant pagans and non-Catholic Christians are like people holding on to a rope attached to the Ark.[/quote]

I agree

[mortify]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1656732' date='Sep 16 2008, 12:04 PM']Hmm... I think someone gave a similar analogy earlier in the thread (maybe the first page). Seems to me you're either in the boat or you're not.[/quote]

In the end you're either in or out but during life there are many elements we can't foresee. A catechumen that dies is technically outside the visible church but because of their desire for the sacrament it's generally accepted that they receive the merits of baptism by God's mercy. Now some people take baptism of desire to extremes, such that nearly every human being makes it. To desire something means one must be aware of it, one must seek it, and one must do what they can to receive it.
[quote]Accepting Truth and Love (to the best of your ability) are your ticket on the boat; rejecting them mean you aren't on the boat.[/quote]

This is a very vague statement. People interpret Truth and Love in so many ways nowadays that one can say to accept those things yet knowingly and willingly reject God, Jesus Christ, and the Church. We have to remember that a *dogmatic faith* is required for salvation, not simply a faith in God's mercy.
[quote]Christ didn't create a Church with lifeboats; it [i]is[/i] the lifeboat. [/quote]

It's actually an image used in old Catechisms, the link to the Ark of Noah goes back to antiquity.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='mortify' post='1656983' date='Sep 16 2008, 09:14 PM']This is a very vague statement. People interpret Truth and Love in so many ways nowadays that one can say to accept those things yet knowingly and willingly reject God, Jesus Christ, and the Church. We have to remember that a *dogmatic faith* is required for salvation, not simply a faith in God's mercy.[/quote]

Well, last I checked, Truth and Love = dogmatic faith. I know other people have their own ideas, but we're both speaking here as faithful Catholics agreeing on what it means to believe in Truth and Love through the Person of Jesus.

[quote name='mortify' post='1656983' date='Sep 16 2008, 09:14 PM']It's actually an image used in old Catechisms, the link to the Ark of Noah goes back to antiquity.[/quote]

What is an image used in old Catechisms? Lutherans dangling off the side of the boat on ropes? That's the part that seems wacky to me, like trying to force too much theology into a metaphor.