I Certainly Don't Think Hitler Was As Bad As Luther

[Guest]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1651813' date='Sep 9 2008, 08:08 PM']Saying Luther was a worse evil than Hitler in no way diminishes Hitler's evil. I think it's rather a commentary on the grave damage DJ sees Luther having inflicted upon the Church, who is the Bride of Christ. While one may agree or not, it appears people have drawn conclusions and made accusations without explanation. Thus the question appears to be disingenuous character assassination rather than an honest attempt at dialogue.

I assure you, apart from his deplorable habit of wearing ties with short sleeve shirts, DJ is unimpeachable.[/quote]


no not at all, im not saying anything about his character, im just offended. im sure he's a great, smart, loveing man. i just get to caught up in these type of statements or when catholics say other christians from other denominations probally arent going to achieve salvation. it just bugs me because its not what the bible teaches, im the one who has shown to have a character problem though, not don jonh.

don john when you read this, no hard feelings, i just disagree with you 110 percent on about everything we have talked about. i believe i have brothers and sisters in christ in other denominations and i dont believe they have to be ordained catholics to join God in heaven, and i dont believe a man who loved and served God and broke away from the church originally because of valid reasons is a worse evil then hitler, call me crazy, at any rate i took this overboard, peace.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651818' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:13 PM']i just get to caught up in these type of statements or when catholics say other christians from other denominations probally arent going to achieve salvation. it just bugs me because its not what the bible teaches, im the one who has shown to have a character problem though, not don jonh.[/quote]

D-S 874
"Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, diffinimus omnino esse de necessitate salutis." (Boniface VIII, "Unam Sanctam")

"Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Obviously, this dogma has been developed in the last several hundred years, particularly by the last Ecumenical Council, but, of course, it remains completely true.

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore

[Guest]

what up bro, you dont rep the pope
holla


just jokeing
i respect you alot and i have told you that before
there are christians who attend nondenominational churches who are not anticatholic who are saved. simple.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Vincent Vega]

Well, rep the pope or don't, that's still a Church document...

[Guest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1651847' date='Sep 9 2008, 08:45 PM']Well, rep the pope or don't, that's still a Church document...
[/quote]

ok, it still doesnt change the fact that a christian who is not anticatholic and is not an ordained catholic wont not achieve salvation.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651818' date='Sep 9 2008, 09:13 PM']no not at all, im not saying anything about his character, im just offended. im sure he's a great, smart, loveing man. i just get to caught up in these type of statements or when catholics say other christians from other denominations probally arent going to achieve salvation. it just bugs me because its not what the bible teaches, im the one who has shown to have a character problem though, not don jonh.

don john when you read this, no hard feelings, i just disagree with you 110 percent on about everything we have talked about. i believe i have brothers and sisters in christ in other denominations and i dont believe they have to be ordained catholics to join God in heaven, and i dont believe a man who loved and served God and broke away from the church originally because of valid reasons is a worse evil then hitler, call me crazy, at any rate i took this overboard, peace.[/quote]Understood.

[Guest]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1651851' date='Sep 9 2008, 09:48 PM']Understood.[/quote]

cool, Godbless you bro, and I RESPECT you both for your faithfullness to Christ and your complex understanding of the church, it confuses the heck out of me.

and I change my statement to "I dont believe they have to be ordained catholics in this lifetime to acheive salvation" Im sure God will take care of that in purgatory and by the time they reach heaven they will be ordained catholics.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651849' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:47 PM']there are christians who attend nondenominational churches who are not anticatholic who are saved. simple.[/quote]

That doesn't seem to be what any Pope or Ecumenical Council has ever taught.

You can't be a Catholic and deny the dogmas of the Church.

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore

[Guest]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1651856' date='Sep 9 2008, 09:53 PM']That doesn't seem to be what any Pope or Ecumenical Council has ever taught.[/quote]

o really ??
so you are saying that christians that attend non denominational churches that arent anti catholic and our not fullly aware that the catholic church is the church christ founded are not going to achieve salvation ?? what part of " confess with your mouth Jesus Christ Is Lord and belive in your heart and you will be saved " dont you understand ??
and dont give me the "get away from me i never knew you line" im not talking about gospel pimps going around doing works in jesus name and makeing a bunch of loot from it.
im talking about sincere christians who love chirst and love God. stop judgeing bro, its lame

and if your telling me I cant believe in that scripture and be catholic, then im out, im out of your brand of catholic, because it seems as if your brand of catholic is destrutive and hatefull.

Pontifex said very clearly in the thread in open mic that golden child was wrong and asked him why he's even posting at phatmass for poseing that silly arguement. enough said.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651865' date='Sep 9 2008, 07:59 PM']o really ??
so you are saying that christians that attend non denominational churches that arent anti catholic are not going to achieve salvation ?? what part of " confess with your mouth Jesus Christ Is Lord and belive in your heart and you will be saved " dont you understand ??[/quote]

I don't understand your interpretation of it.

"Munus autem authentice interpretandi verbum Dei scriptum vel traditum soli vivo Ecclesiae Magisterio concreditum est, cuius auctoritas in nomine Iesu Christi exercetur. Quod quidem Magisterium non supra verbum Dei est, sed eidem ministrat, docens nonnisi quod traditum est, quatenus illud, ex divino mandato et Spiritu Sancto assistente, pie audit, sancte custodit et fideliter exponit, ac ea omnia ex hoc uno fidei deposito haurit quae tamquam divinitus revelata credenda proponit." (Dei Verbum, 10)

"But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed."

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore

[Guest]

alright buddy, im catholic and i belive what the church teaches, and i know the church does not teach that all other denominations other then catholic are going to go to hell.

you are trying to get me caught up in a silly argument i dont have time for, whatever bro. there are exceptions and i agree that if someone is defiant of the catholic church and tries to achieve salvation outside of it they could risk their salvation, but again im not talking about that person.

im talking about peple who are burdened by the world and love god and are trying their best to achieve salvation. Jesus says that he is with those who labor and our weak and his burden is light. But go ahead and try to twist my words some more and make me look stupid, its cool bro.

Again, a child could undertand this, " If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that jesus christ was lord and raised from the the dead [font="Arial Black"]YOU WILL BE SAVED[/font][size="7"][/size]"

make it as complicated as you want, i really dont care. I know as a catholic much more is expected of me and i cant just get by with useing that scriputre. I need to attend mass everyweek and confess all the mortal sins I commit. Im not perfect. I dont claim to be. I dont judge other peoples souls or hope for their downfall. Peace

Edited September 10, 2008 by Guest

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1651873' date='Sep 9 2008, 08:11 PM']Again, a child could undertand this, " If you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that jesus christ was lord and raised from the dead YOU WILL BE SAVED"[/quote]

"Si autem vis ad vitam ingredi, serva mandata." (Matt 19:17)

"But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

[Guest]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1651887' date='Sep 9 2008, 10:20 PM']"Si autem vis ad vitam ingredi, serva mandata." (Matt 19:17)

"But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."[/quote]

O LORD ST. THOMASMORE, COULD YOU PLEASE LORD TELL ME WHAT COMMANDEMENT I AM NOT KEEPING ???? MAY I WASH YOUR FEET ????

whatever bro
like I said, this is dumb
do what you do
peace

[Guest]

and i asked you before but you never told me, why dont you rep the pope ?? anything to do with being so gosh darn judgemental and self rightous ?? that would be my guess, who knows though, later

[Resurrexi]

I'm saying your argument says that salvation is based on faith alone, which interestingly enough, is a Lutheran heresy, so I don't see why you would be believing it if you believe in the Catholic religion.

D-S 1559
"Si quis dixerit, sola fide impium iustificari, ita ut intelligat, nihil aliud requiri, quo ad iustificationis gratiam consequendam cooperetur, et nulla ex parte necesse esse, eum suae voluntatis motu praeparari atque disponi: an. s." (Council of Trent, Canon 9 on Justification)

"If anyone shall say that by faith alone the sinner is justified, so as to understand that nothing else is required to cooperate in the attainment of the grace of justification, and that it is in no way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will: let him be anathema"

Edited September 10, 2008 by StThomasMore