Freaky Mass!

[StColette]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1651546' date='Sep 9 2008, 02:49 PM']Well, what dominicansoul said is "any conversing going on is only between you and God." I'm not sure how literally he meant that. I've given a polite greeting to some people in traditional style parishes only be rebuffed with a "How do you recognize my presence while we are in Church!" kind of look. That's why I usually avoid those kinds of parishes. [/quote]

Not going to turn this into a debate, but I doubt anyone, of course there are some rare few that would be greatly offended by someone even saying hello. That being the case, I believe what dominicansoul is referring to is the fact that many people trying to hold full length conversations with people before and after Mass within the Church itself. Now saying a quick hi or just smiling to acknowledge someone should suffice until after Mass or if a conversation must take place then they should take it elsewhere and not inside the main body of the Church.

[quote]I've only been to one parish that did this, but it was the end of Mass, and it was pretty obvious we were visitors because it was predominantly African-American. That said, asking visitors to stand up and be recognized is about the worst way to help them feel welcome. Few people like standing up in front of crowds, so why ask a visitor to do that? Fact is, when an announcement like that is made, a good number of visitors remain seated.[/quote]

Every parish that I've ever attended has always had visitors stand up and be greeted. I guess it's the visitors that we have that don't mind standing up and being greeted. I would not say its the worse way to help them feel welcomed, because a lot of parishes are so large that everyone does not know everyone so its difficult to distinguish visitor from parishioner without some type of recognition.

[quote]That said, there is obviously no need to carry on conversations in church. A comfortable and inviting space needs to be provided elsewhere, either in the narthax, or someplace easy to find from the front entrance, where people can gather and socialize. This is the ideal place to help visitors find out how they can get connected, and to keep people involved on a continual basis. That cannot be done outside on the front steps and announcements in the bulletin are too easy to ignore. There must be some form of personal interaction outside of the Mass and church.[/quote]

Which is why I said conversations should be held outside, in the narthex, or some other suitable place. Conversations do not belong within the main body of the Church because they are distracting for those who are trying to pray. Again, Dominicansoul made mention of the conversations taking place outside of the Mass and Church so I don't see what your problem is with the experience he had with that parish.

[quote]Jesus didn't sit around and wait for the lost sheep to return; he found the sheep and returned it to the fold. We have a lot of lost sheep who wander in and out of churches every Sunday, yet nothing is done to bring them back into the fold.[/quote]

Nothing may not be done in your Church or in the Churches you have attended but my experience with this is quite different and it has been handled without having length conversation inside the Church. Dominicansoul's main point was to say that conversations don't belong in the main body of the Church, but elsewhere. And according to what he described, wonderful conversations were held outside after Mass. Seems to me that Church has things going perfectly fine. And nor does it seem that they were sitting around letting lost sheep wander by themselves especially since it seems there were very active conversations outside after Mass.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='StColette' post='1651568' date='Sep 9 2008, 04:37 PM']Every parish that I've ever attended has always had visitors stand up and be greeted. I guess it's the visitors that we have that don't mind standing up and being greeted. I would not say its the worse way to help them feel welcomed, because a lot of parishes are so large that everyone does not know everyone so its difficult to distinguish visitor from parishioner without some type of recognition.[/quote]

That must be a regional thing. Now, I love being the center of attention, so it wouldn't mind standing up (though early in the morning, I might not be in a smiley mood), but most people aren't all that eager to have hundreds of people suddenly looking at them, especially without notice. I expect a lot of visitors don't stand up to avoid embarassment, so if that's the parish's primary method of welcoming visitors and helping them get involved, what about those who didn't stand up?

Another problem with this method is the people who might invite them into a Bible study or whatever aren't able to talk to them for another hour, and then they're forced to hunt them down through a crowd of people. It can make for a stressful experience.

As a side note, one thing I really don't enjoy is talking on the phone. It's awkward and usually requires leaving a message, then hoping for a call back, which you might miss... it's a mess. So when the bulletin announcement says I need to call somebody to sign up for a Bible study or young adult group activitiy... that's not gonna happen.

[quote name='StColette' post='1651568' date='Sep 9 2008, 04:37 PM']Which is why I said conversations should be held outside, in the narthex, or some other suitable place. Conversations do not belong within the main body of the Church because they are distracting for those who are trying to pray. Again, Dominicansoul made mention of the conversations taking place outside of the Mass and Church so I don't see what your problem is with the experience he had with that parish.[/quote]

I'm thinking about the people who are basically strangers, who are easily overlooked by those who already have plenty of friends at the parish. By our nature, we immediately gravitate to people who know in a social atmosphere, and when you look around and see no familiar faces, you tend to get out of there pretty quickly. That's why there needs to be an intentional effort to welcome and involve newcomers. If it's left up to individuals, most individuals will stick to their comfort zone.

[quote name='StColette' post='1651568' date='Sep 9 2008, 04:37 PM']Nothing may not be done in your Church or in the Churches you have attended but my experience with this is quite different and it has been handled without having length conversation inside the Church. Dominicansoul's main point was to say that conversations don't belong in the main body of the Church, but elsewhere. And according to what he described, wonderful conversations were held outside after Mass. Seems to me that Church has things going perfectly fine. And nor does it seem that they were sitting around letting lost sheep wander by themselves especially since it seems there were very active conversations outside after Mass.[/quote]

Well, dominicansoul hasn't answered yet about what his parish does to help people get connected, so his parish may or may not be doing much in that area. What I do know, from going to Mass almost every Sunday by myself, is that conversations outside in front of church aren't the most welcoming experience when you're a stranger. There needs to be an actual process for personally greeting people and establishing relationships with them because that is the kind of experience that draws people back. When I was in college and trying to get people interested in Bible studies, mass e-mails and posters around campus would get the word out and draw a couple folks in, but personal relationships were always the most effective way. It's no different anywhere else.

The parish I attend has coffee and doughnuts in the back of church after Mass, which gives people a reason to stick around for a few minutes, and provides opportunity to meet those you don't know, or just get to know people better. There isn't anything done beyond that to inform them of parish activities, but admittedly, there aren't many parish activities outside of a few festivals during the year. It's an older parish with hardly any young adults, but that's where I go because I'm not alone. At every other parish, I'm just another face in the crowd.

The bottom line is, when we leave it up to visitors to take the iniatitive of breaking the ice, it probably won't happen unless they are serious about getting involved or have become that desperate. It should be parishioners who are breaking the ice so that visitors leave knowing somebody they didn't know when arriving.

Edited September 10, 2008 by LouisvilleFan