Who Will You Be Voting For?

[Theologian in Training]

[img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_136.gif[/img]

[VeraMaria]

politics =

[Rebirth flame]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' date='Mar 7 2004, 11:33 AM'] [img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_136.gif[/img] [/quote]
lol!!! that's rich!!! Hilarious!!!! stupendous!!!! i'll be quiet now...

[MrsFrozen]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 6 2004, 05:20 PM'] Where in the CCC does it say voting for a person that isn't 100% pro-life is a sin, much less a mortal sin?

I asked the Bio-medical ethics guy for my area (who is also my parish priest about that. He told me that it was not a sin, much less mortal, to support Kerry and that no politician is strictly pro-life. We must look at them fully, who does more for the sick, the old, the outcast, the poor, the oppresed, the dying, the young, everyone! And base our votes on that. And the greatest sin would be not to vote at all. To not care about the race or the issues. To become disintrested. [/quote]
You honestly think it's not a sin to support someone who thinks it's perfectly all right to kill a baby right up to the due date?

[MrsFrozen]

[quote name='FX2' date='Mar 6 2004, 08:27 PM'] Sorry bout this...i see u guys talking about abortion, but i wanna bring it back to 9/11 . What really irked me is how Iacobus blamed 9/11 on Bush, when Clinton had Osama Bin Laden in his "sights" and yet didnt follow through with capturing him. I dont see how you could blame it on a president who was in office for 9 months, while a president who was in office for 8 years did abaloutely nothing about it. [/quote]
AMEN!

[the protector]

What is someone was pro-segregation, but also pro-life? What is more likely? Abortion banned under the Bush administration or another war under the Bush administration.

Edited March 7, 2004 by the protector

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 6 2004, 07:20 PM'] Where in the CCC does it say voting for a person that isn't 100% pro-life is a sin, much less a mortal sin?

I asked the Bio-medical ethics guy for my area (who is also my parish priest about that. He told me that it was not a sin, much less mortal, to support Kerry and that no politician is strictly pro-life. We must look at them fully, who does more for the sick, the old, the outcast, the poor, the oppresed, the dying, the young, everyone! And base our votes on that. And the greatest sin would be not to vote at all. To not care about the race or the issues. To become disintrested. [/quote]
[url="http://www.usccb.org/prolife/gospel.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/prolife/gospel.htm[/url]

32.No public official, especially one claiming to be a faithful and serious Catholic, can responsibly advocate for or actively support direct attacks on innocent human life..... However, no appeal to policy, procedure, majority will or pluralism ever excuses a public official from defending life to the greatest extent possible. As is true of leaders in all walks of life, no political leader can evade accountability for his or her exercise of power (Evangelium Vitae, 73-4)Those who justify their inaction on the grounds that abortion is the law of the land need to recognize that there is a higher law, the law of God. No human law can validly contradict the Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill."

[Iacobus]

Thank you cmotherofpirl! I do think it is sin and a grave on at theat to abortion a child. I am kind of upset though by the fact that is appears that no one party's rule leads to a lower rate of abortions. Let's all hope and pray that the case peneding in New Orleans overturns Roe v. Wade soon so that all life can be safe.

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Mar 7 2004, 03:59 PM'] [url="http://www.usccb.org/prolife/gospel.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/prolife/gospel.htm[/url]

32.No public official, especially one claiming to be a faithful and serious Catholic, can responsibly advocate for or actively support direct attacks on innocent human life..... However, no appeal to policy, procedure, majority will or pluralism ever excuses a public official from defending life to the greatest extent possible. As is true of leaders in all walks of life, no political leader can evade accountability for his or her exercise of power (Evangelium Vitae, 73-4)Those who justify their inaction on the grounds that abortion is the law of the land need to recognize that there is a higher law, the law of God. No human law can validly contradict the Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill." [/quote]

[ironmonk]

Anyone who votes for Kerry is voting against pro-life and is in danger of a grave sin.

Anyone who would vote for kerry I think would have some issues with their priorities.

1,300,000 babies a year dead in the USA.

Those who vote for kerry will force me to pay taxes that will kill even more innocent children around the world.

How can those who vote for kerry be Christian? It just doesn't add up.

Not only the death of innocent babies, but the 'Sodom & Gamorahizing' of the US with the ssa marriages.

Bush did not lie. Bush has not contradicted himself. Possibly being wrong does not equal a lie. Just because proof has not been found does not mean there wasn't any. There could have been numerous ways to dispose of and hide the materials.

It's blatently obvious that kerry is a liar. He is seen saying one thing, then saying something totall opposite.

But... everything is mute compared to the innocent slaughter of babies being ripped apart. These babies scream when this happens. It is inexcusable.

Anyone who would vote for kerry really needs to take a deep look at what values that the Church teaches and evaluate their conscience.


It's time to stop the killing, when the killing is stopped, then we should worry about the little things.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 7 2004, 07:12 PM'] I am kind of upset though by the fact that is appears that no one party's rule leads to a lower rate of abortions. [/quote]
Bush is trying, the demos in the senate keep bashing his nominee's.

Bush has done a lot for Life.

See a partial list here: [url="http://www.moraltruth.com/MTBBS/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=127"]http://www.moraltruth.com/MTBBS/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=127[/url]


God Bless,
ironmonk

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I will run for president and end this controversy. I am bored...

[Iacobus]

AS Catholics we are very encouged to vote. I don't think I am going to really throw much support behind either runner right now.

I think Kerry needs to change his view of the life in the womb. That life is sacred. I wish and pray that he is pro-life.

However, Bush, regardless of wheiter he lied or not, should grant more help to the 9/11 court thing (like letting them interview Dr. Rice and giving them stuff BEFORE he recives the subpeona) and he should admit that we made a mistake in Iraq. JFK took 100% responsiblity for the Bay of Pigs, etc etc. Bush should say that the cause for the war was based on what came out to be bad intel and say that he and the intel community and his WH take full responiblity for leading America to war. At least that would be the right and brave thing to do. Last I checked America, the nation so "loved" by GWB is the home of the brave. Shouldn't the leadership be as brave as the CIA agents risking lives to combat terror, or the troops in Iraq or Afganastan. Shouldn't they be more worried about finding out who revealed the id of the CIA agent last year than withholding info from investagitions?

Bush, also has a poor record with the poor. His tax cuts are based on Supply Side Economics. Which is kind of flawed. The idea behind it was if we give tax breaks to the richer population than they will expend their companies thus increasing the number of jobs and they will also start to buy more stuff thus increasing the number of jobs. What is wrong with this? Well if you are Bill Gates and have $44,600,000 in your pocket will getting $5,000 back on your taxs push or drive you to go buy a new $100,000 car? No likely, if you wanted that car you would have got it with or without the tax break. The poor are loved by Christ too. Read Luke. We need to give direct aid to the poor and none of this "trickle down" idea.

Also the medicare bill he passed will lengthen mdicare life from 2017 to 2021!!! If that is what those in Washington call reform than I want remgime change! The elders of America NEED medicare to live! They can't afford the drugs they need and still shop in the US.

Bush's views on war, a little too gung-ho for me, and his views on cap. punishment I also don't agree with. ALL life is sacred. Not just the life in the womb. We need to work to protect ALL LIFE FROM CONCEPTION TO NATURAL DEATH! not just at one stage but at every stage and ALL at once. This cannot be done systematicly. It is TOO important. War costs the lives of young men and women and when we are going to spill our blood the cause better be well founded. This Iraq deal seems kind of ify, which C. Powell not coming back after felling like he was stood up with bad intel at the UN. And with the DP. We, as Catholics, should love the person and their soul but HATE the sin. The sin is the crime but we should not judge them (judge not lest you be judged) and order them to be killed. We need to help them. Show them Christ. Guide them on the walk.

Neither candiate from either main party fits the roles set out by the Gospels for a good person. Thus we are faced with voting for the "lesser evil" which begs the question, how can an evil be lesser than an other evil?

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 26 2004, 11:51 PM']
Bush, also has a poor record with the poor. His tax cuts are based on Supply Side Economics. Which is kind of flawed. The idea behind it was if we give tax breaks to the richer population than they will expend their companies thus increasing the number of jobs and they will also start to buy more stuff thus increasing the number of jobs. What is wrong with this? Well if you are Bill Gates and have $44,600,000 in your pocket will getting $5,000 back on your taxs push or drive you to go buy a new $100,000 car? No likely, if you wanted that car you would have got it with or without the tax break. The poor are loved by Christ too. Read Luke. We need to give direct aid to the poor and none of this "trickle down" idea.

Also the medicare bill he passed will lengthen mdicare life from 2017 to 2021!!! If that is what those in Washington call reform than I want remgime change! The elders of America NEED medicare to live! They can't afford the drugs they need and still shop in the US.

[/quote]
Can someone show me where in the Constitution the Federal Government has the duty or is even allowed to dish out money for medicare or anything else? It is not there. It is not the job of the state (in the general sense of that term) to supply a living wage to the citizens. This is not a communist country. You said "Read Luke, we need to give direct aid to the poor..." Exactly! The government taking my money and then giving a tiny portion of it (after 90% of it has been spent on funding the program) to some poor person is not what I would call "direct giving". Who responsibility is it? Ours as individuals, not the government. We can't shirk our responsibility and hope big brother steps in a makes everything nice. The reason all these programs (Social Security, etc) are failing is becasue they are socialist in nature and were doomed to fail from the beginning.

[popestpiusx]

And as far as medicare goes, ask the canadians how well socialized medicine works. I personally know people who have come here because the Med. Care in Canada is a joke. One fellow, a tremendous Catholic doctor, moved here because putting up wit the nonsence he had to put up (as a doctor) was enough to nearly bust him and his family flat.