Who Will You Be Voting For?

[Aloysius]

if Kerry wins and becomes a prominent figure in the world, i would imagine and hope that the Pope would do his duty and publically excommunicate him for furthering the cause of baby-killing.

i support George W. Bush. i do not believe he has ever lied to us, he has presented the truth to us the best he has known it.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I think this thread should be closed to replies and be open only for voting the poll. This topic has been the subject of several debates lately and its likely to get heated and or ugly.

[Iacobus]

I don't know if Bush ever lied to us. But the fact that Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, a man who I have nothing but respect for, is not willing to serve under Bush if he is re-elteced becasue we felt as if the Bush White House stood him up with false intel documents at the UN last year.

Plus 9/11 most likly could have been prevented. The "great" leader we had before Bush had a plan to invade Afganastan and take out Bin Laden. He didn't go through with it most likly so he did have to hand over an active war to a new leader (Ike did the same with JFK and Cuba). Many insiders like Rice warned Bush about the threat and no one acted on it. Until 9/11. After that the Bush White House in moral outrage "made" a plan that was identical to the Clition plan to invade Afganastan.

Does Bush lie out right? Some say he does. I think he has "spun" the truth to advance his agenda. And someone from the White House put a lot of pressure on the CIA and NSA and FBI to find document related to the WMD threat in Iraq. This is one of the things that worries me. Spinning and pressuring are nearly the same as lieing.

Plus in 2000 he was VERY anti-nation building. What are we doing in Iraq than.

And when we went to Iraq how come we deployed forces to protect the oil fields but not even a small unit to defend the museums in Bagdad?

[Aloysius]

i DETEST politics.

monday morning quarterbacks say 9-11 could have been prevented. if you had been in the whitehouse i bet 9-11 would've still happened. if kerry had been in the whitehouse, if gore had been in the whitehouse, if clinton had been in the whitehouse, it would have still happened.


the CIA director himself explained the intelligence failure. based on the intelligence bush had at the time saddam had WMDs. not to mention they HAVE found weopons that were illegal due the the UN sanctions there... but no since we as of yet haven't found the WMDs that EVEN THE IRAQUI SCIENTISTS told saddam IRaq had, all the sudden Bush lied to us. carp.

in 2000 there wasn't an immenent thread visible to him.

this man is a man of God, and if kerry gets in the whitehouse dictators accross the world will shout for joy, because no longer will we have the America devoted to world peace and stability taking out leaders such as hitler and the japanese emporer in WWII, saddam hussein... we'll have the America commited to making concessions and deals with dictators for the sake of current peacefullness which is in fact a facade as long as there are dictators ruling.

they deployed forces to protect oil fields because they could have been sabotaged which would have ruined any chance for rebuilding Iraq, the iraqui economy would've been ruined by such sabotage, they didn't forsee the threat to the museums. again, you're bein a monday morning quarterback.

anyway, i think we're losing sight of the real issue here, which is:
[b]is the new iraq going to allow same-sex marriage? [/b]


i'm done with this, cuz i hate having all of us ignorant citizens argue over matters we have no idea about other than what we hear from biased sources on both sides.

[Iacobus]

lol. We have lost the main issue of "is the new iraq going to allow same-sex marriage?" Our culture is backward and focus on dumb issues. I think I will leave it at that and not retort.

[morostheos]

I, too, am extremely conflicted. I don't feel that I honestly can vote for any candidate free of conscience. Bush has weakened just about every major environmental law on the books for the sake of more money for big oil, and Kerry is pro-choice. I just can't win.

Who wants to make a new party with me that is completely faithful to the teachings of the magisterium?? It wouldn't be the "Catholic" party, because religion and politics aren't the same thing and we shouldn't have the Church itself active in politics, but it could be the "Be don't a dope" party.

[MrsFrozen]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 5 2004, 12:51 PM'] I said John Kerry and proud of it. I like Kerry, even with his shortfalls, more than I like Bush. And anything Kerry does that is tottaly insane can be stoped in the Senate. [/quote]
Voting for a pro-abortion candidate is a sin.

[cmotherofpirl]

And you can't get more pro-death than Kerry.

He is the most liberal person in the entire Senate.

[Dave]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 5 2004, 01:51 PM'] I said John Kerry and proud of it. I like Kerry, even with his shortfalls, more than I like Bush. And anything Kerry does that is tottaly insane can be stoped in the Senate. [/quote]
If you knowingly vote for Kerry, you commit a mortal sin. Heck, you may have already committed a mortal sin by intending to vote for him. As long as you're determined to do what the Church seriously forbids, you better not receive Holy Communion, as you'd be committing sacrilege.

Edited March 6, 2004 by Dave

[jmjtina]

The choice between a candidate who will advocate killing at any time in the womb for any reason and another who has banned Partial Birth Abortion, and has stopped foreign aid that supports abortion, appoints more Pro-Life Bioethics Council Members, then my vote is clear. Right now life is the most important to me than any other issue.

[Rebirth flame]

If any of you have read the "abortion almost overturned thread," it's relatively obvious who i would vote for (Bush), except i'm 17, so i can't...

i absolutely agree with you, Al, when you said you detest politics. it is, unfortunately, fact that a really honest and pure politician is a rarity anymore. people just wanna get power and authority, but they don't have the responsibility or the morality to uphold such an influential position in society.

it smells of elderberries that Bush is all for capital punishment, but it smells of elderberries more that Kerry wants to kill people that have done [i]absolutely[/i] nothing wrong!!! don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that capital punishment is justified because they've done something to "deserve" it, because none here on earth have the authority to choose who lives and who dies. But, i am saying that if you look at it in more of a larger scale, abortion is impacting us much more than capital punishment.

and, if i have ot hear one more thing about Kerry being in the vietnam war, i think i'm gonna vomit. He thinks that's the only reason people should vote for him!!!

[Iacobus]

I did some number crunching last night and found out that the pres. views on abortion have almost NOTHING to do with the number of abortions in the US. Which is kind of sad. Abortion is a social norm and the sitting pres has ALMOST no control over it. This is what I posted in the other thread and it is what makes me the most mad.

[quote]I am not saying Kerry is the best person to ever run for the office. I just like him more than I like Bush. The fact that we undergo almost 1 abortion for every 2 people alive in the US (puke, why is that number so high). We need to fix the problem.

Regan and Bush (W. H.) both had the law that Kerry states that he will remove in effect during thier terms. The number of abortions in the US per year peaked under the 1st Bush and DECLINED under Bill Clinton by 163,200 abortions per year during his 1st term. This is with the pro-abortion rules.

0.46 abortions per person in Mass. in 1996
0.44 abortions per person in TX in 1996

Not a great stat different between the state in which Bush was governer and the State in which Kerry was senator.

But don't take my facts as true, check them, I used www.abortiontv.com for the numbers on abortions per year and InfoPlease for the number of people living in each state.[/quote]

The man in the WH has almost no influance on the rate of abortions. The only change G. W. Bush has given us the the P-BA bill.

And if you really want to be mad at some one think about this. The Dutch (I think it was them) have a company that mans a small fleet of "abortion" boats that sail to a port where abortion is illegal find women who want an abortion. Then they take those women aboard and sail out 5 or so miles from the coast. They are now in international waters and are governed by the laws of the nation the vessel is registered in. They abort the life and return the women to their home port and sail on.

[Rebirth flame]

it's not just the abortion thing, though. someone else (props to Colleen) had a good point when they said that voting for a Catholic who really doesn't seem to act Catholic will confuse those who aren't very familiar with the church's teachings. it's a double standard to say that you are Catholic, but to then say that abortion is suitable. we hear in the book of revelation that if we are even the least bit lukewarm, Jesus will spit us from his mouth. he would prefer we be completely against him or completely for him, than to pretend to be one way and act another.

i'm not picking on you, Iacobus. i am not saying that you even remotely stand for everything that Kerry stands for. but i am saying that Kerry should not present a double standard of himself. it doesn't sell him as being a truly honest and suitable cantidate for presidency. i don't know about everyone else, but i want someone in office that i know i can trust (not saying that Kerry isn't trustworthy, but again, the double standard doesnt help his case too much...).

Edited March 6, 2004 by Rebirth flame

[Iacobus]

Thank you Rebirth flame. Nice to know I am not being picked on. I have had a "troubled" past with some of this hot button issues. And as much as I deny it parts (small but ever present) carry over with me. I see what you mean by the double standard. I want someone I can trust to be my pres. too. I just don't trust GW Bush or Johnsonville brat Chency either. Kerry Bush Chency are all politicians and are worried about their jobs and postions. If lieing will adavnce them, than it is free to do. I also want a pres. that gives more interviews and press confrernces. The Bush WH hasn't been big on that and according to some media outlets is the hardest WH to get info from for a LONG time.

I wish the money that we pumped into Iraq or the money Bush put into tax cuts or the money that he is going to use to try and go to the moon (can ANYONE tell me why we are doing that?) would have gone to some thing that would lower the number of abortions in the world. 4,100 a day, 1 for every women's lifetime. Something has to be done about that and the how many billion could we have put into futhering that cause as a goverment? Could we have spent that 84 billion that we gave to Iraq last year on adoption services? Could the 1.5 TRILLION dollar tax cut have gone to women's care centers? What is the goal here?

Maybe we should all pray for Kerry to change. He may have some bad views but he still is human and desevering of our prayers.

[Rebirth flame]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 6 2004, 02:41 PM'] Maybe we should all pray for Kerry to change. He may have some bad views but he still is human and desevering of our prayers. [/quote]
amen.