Quran, Book Of Morman

[dairygirl4u2c]

so can anyone find a blatant contradiction in: the quran, or the book of mormon?

i am skeptical of the bible's inerrancy,,, but i have to concede i can't find any blatant contradictions, and some things that seem tough to our culture could just be God's way of doing things, ie, killing children for their parents' etc sin, or beyond our understanding. if somethings like that are debatable, then a conradiction one would think would be find, if the bible weren't error free,,,, but even those alleged ones that people point to seem debatable and not blatant.

so the next question is... are the supposed contradictions in the quran and book of mormon etc, just as debatable?
if they were, then that'd make one question whether the bible's difficult passages are just as bad,,, cause all the books can't be right.

i'm asking for more than just superficial alleged contradictions, and copy and paste,, but for someone to say "these here passages are contradictions, there's no way around it", and stake their good reason on the line.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1643427' date='Aug 31 2008, 02:22 PM']so can anyone find a blatant contradiction in: the quran, or the book of mormon?

i am skeptical of the bible's inerrancy,,, but i have to concede i can't find any blatant contradictions, and some things that seem tough to our culture could just be God's way of doing things, ie, killing children for their parents' etc sin, or beyond our understanding. if somethings like that are debatable, then a conradiction one would think would be find, if the bible weren't error free,,,, but even those alleged ones that people point to seem debatable and not blatant.

so the next question is... are the supposed contradictions in the quran and book of mormon etc, just as debatable?
if they were, then that'd make one question whether the bible's difficult passages are just as bad,,, cause all the books can't be right.

i'm asking for more than just superficial alleged contradictions, and copy and paste,, but for someone to say "these here passages are contradictions, there's no way around it", and stake their good reason on the line.[/quote]

In the book of Mormon, or some prophecy from the creator of the Mormon Faith says that all black people will turn white.

Yeah, you heard me right. Talk about racist croutons that is never going to happen.

Since this, and other prophecies spoken by Joseph whatever can't happen, it is safe to say, the Book of Mormon was written by a false prophet that god-fearing Christians should have gone old testament on - stoning him to death!

The Quran was given to humanity by Muhammed, while he convulsed on the ground while gaining knowledge from an Angel that claimed it was Gabriel. One of his pupils wrote word for word what that man convulsing on the ground. Although I haven't read it, the fact it came to us like that makes me go, no - the last time I read in the Bible someone was falling down and squirming, Jesus was asked by that man's father to cure him, and Jesus rebuked a demon out of that man. So, needless to say, if Jesus rebuked a demon out of someone squirming on the ground, if there is a spiritual activity in regards to someone who doesn't have epilepsi, then I am going to assume. . . Demonic!

Considering the message of violence of the Quran, that would also go in line, as it does call for Muslims to go out and murder infidel Christians and Jews for rejecting Allah!

[CatherineM]

I have read the Qur'an, but I wasn't looking for contradictions in it. I don't normally read things looking for things out of place unless it is a murder mystery and I'm trying to figure out who done it. I use many quotes from the Qur'an when I teach the RCIA section on Mary. She is mentioned more times in the Qur'an than she is in the New Testament.

[dairygirl4u2c]

so yeah it's interesting what i am learning about mormon etc.

that black skin and white skin stuff... it's debatable. someone who's bad gets darkened skin. doesn't mean God's being racist.

all the points i've been finding, are debatable.

what's real interesting, is that the prophets in mormonism, are like the pope,,, in that there is a religion other than the CC in which you can compare statements from the leader, for contradictions. so far i've found nothing definitive.
and it can become a matter of,,, "this wasn't definitive teaching" etc like it is in the CC.
and they use the same apologetic procedural ideas,,, like go to mormon for mormon ideas, etc.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1643834' date='Aug 31 2008, 10:14 PM']that black skin and white skin stuff... it's debatable. someone who's bad gets darkened skin. doesn't mean God's being racist.[/quote]

I was talking about that quack, Joseph whatever his name is.

God is not racist, so he wouldn't turn people of black skin into white skin, because that would mean God is a respecter of persons, because he would prefer white skinned persons over dark skinned persons.

So, don't ever say I was saying God's a racist, but the false prophet who created that false religion is a racist!

Edited September 1, 2008 by MakeYouThink

[dairygirl4u2c]

yeah if you're just clarifying then duly noted.

but just fyi, just clarifying,,,, i wasn't saying that you were saying or that God was racist. i was saying that whether joe smith was a racist or that he said God is a racist is debatable.
i'd lean towards it just being a weird passage about people getting darkened skin for being bad etc,,, not anything to do with racism.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1643427' date='Aug 31 2008, 04:22 PM']so can anyone find a blatant contradiction in: the quran, or the book of mormon?

i am skeptical of the bible's inerrancy,,, but i have to concede i can't find any blatant contradictions, and some things that seem tough to our culture could just be God's way of doing things, ie, killing children for their parents' etc sin, or beyond our understanding. if somethings like that are debatable, then a conradiction one would think would be find, if the bible weren't error free,,,, but even those alleged ones that people point to seem debatable and not blatant.

so the next question is... are the supposed contradictions in the quran and book of mormon etc, just as debatable?
if they were, then that'd make one question whether the bible's difficult passages are just as bad,,, cause all the books can't be right.

i'm asking for more than just superficial alleged contradictions, and copy and paste,, but for someone to say "these here passages are contradictions, there's no way around it", and stake their good reason on the line.[/quote]

Well, be sure to inform all the Muslims and Mormons in the world when you find a contradiction they can't get around.

Of course, when "that's just God's way of doing things" satisfies as a plausible explanation, you'll never find a contradiction you can't get around.

[princessgianna]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1646242' date='Sep 3 2008, 01:37 PM']Well, be sure to inform all the Muslims and Mormons in the world when you find a contradiction they can't get around. [/quote]

I have heard (keyword HEARD) that nowhere in the Quran does is say to kill the invalids(that's would be us non muslims people) yet it does state stuff about being peaceful! but i have never actually read the Quran so you can take that for face value and look out for it!

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1646420' date='Sep 3 2008, 04:41 PM']I have heard (keyword HEARD) that nowhere in the Quran does is say to kill the invalids(that's would be us non muslims people) yet it does state stuff about being peaceful! but i have never actually read the Quran so you can take that for face value and look out for it![/quote]
I believe you mean in[i]fidels[/i], not invalids.

[dairygirl4u2c]

probably the best source, for contradictions... is the skeptics annotated bible quaran book of mormon

this has all three books, but nothing blatant
[url="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html"]http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html[/url]

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1646420' date='Sep 3 2008, 05:41 PM']I have heard (keyword HEARD) that nowhere in the Quran does is say to kill the invalids(that's would be us non muslims people) yet it does state stuff about being peaceful! but i have never actually read the Quran so you can take that for face value and look out for it![/quote]

Well, apparently there is some way of interpreting the Qu'ran to say so, otherwise Al 'Qaida wouldn't exist.

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1646964' date='Sep 4 2008, 12:41 AM']probably the best source, for contradictions... is the skeptics annotated bible quaran book of mormon

this has all three books, but nothing blatant
[url="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html"]http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html[/url][/quote]

And every one of those "contradictions" makes the same mistake: reading the Bible like a historical account of facts rather than the story of God's relationship with humanity. These people have no concept of the latter, and thus are unable to see the beauty of Scripture.

Edited September 4, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1647117' date='Sep 4 2008, 08:13 AM']Well, apparently there is some way of interpreting the Qu'ran to say so, otherwise Al 'Qaida wouldn't exist.



And every one of those "contradictions" makes the same mistake: reading the Bible like a historical account of facts rather than the story of God's relationship with humanity. These people have no concept of the latter, and thus are unable to see the beauty of Scripture.[/quote]

I do both. . .

How God could love humanity to save it in a flood. How God could use 10 plagues to free the Israelites from bondage. How God created a society that had no king, and yet last 250 years before the people demanded a king. How God could love us to give the Israelites warnings about what their transgressions would bring to pass. How God could love us so much that he would bring Israel out of captivity so many times. How God could love us so much he would send his only begotten Son.

To mistake the one without the other, why read the Bible then, because you could read the Quran, or the Torah, or a self-help book like the purpose driven life?

If the first chapters of the Book of Genesis were just to reveal God's relationship with humanity and shouldn't be taken as an accurate history, why then the geneologies in the fourth and fifth chapters? Why have the genologies in the books that went up to the Birth of Jesus? Why did Jesus say, as were the days of Noah, so too shall be the coming of the son of man? If there was no flood, then there were no days of Noah, and Jesus lied to us if that was true! Can God lie?

And why was Jesus linked to Adam, because if there was no flood, and Noah is linked to Adam through geneology in the Bible, then there is no Adam either? Is the Bible one huge lie to make us behave in a certain way? Atheists would be right, if what you say is true!

[princessgianna]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1646658' date='Sep 3 2008, 07:47 PM']I believe you mean in[i]fidels[/i], not invalids.[/quote]
uhhhhhh yea thanks!

Edited September 4, 2008 by princessgianna

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1646420' date='Sep 3 2008, 04:41 PM']I have heard (keyword HEARD) that nowhere in the Quran does is say to kill the invalids(that's would be us non muslims people) yet it does state stuff about being peaceful! but i have never actually read the Quran so you can take that for face value and look out for it![/quote]



You heard wrong.


5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, [color="#FF0000"]that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned[/color]; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
who are sure?
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.


[9.5] [color="#FF0000"]So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush[/color], then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. [color="#FF0000"]Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.[/color][8.13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
[8.14] This-- taste it, and (know) that for the unbelievers is the chastisement of fire.
[8.15][color="#FF0000"]O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them.
[8.16] And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day-- unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company-- then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.[/color]


[9.29]O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
[color="#FF0000"][9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.[/color]
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
[9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him). ([color="#FF0000"]this defines Christians as Polytheist)[/color][9.36] Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, [color="#FF0000"]and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together[/color]; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).



There are more but i think that is sufficiant.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Don John of Austria

[cmotherofpirl]

clean out your mailbox please Don!