For The Gentleman: Do We Have It Better?

[Czech_Texan_Cowboy]

So I was in a discussion with a friend they expressed the opinion that men have it easier in life, than women in categories such as family life, economics, social roles, church roles etc.... And so I was wondering what was y'alls take on this? I for one am more traditional in i my vision of family roles, with a slight modification for modern times. And honestly i have no idea if this topic has been done before I read through a lot of forums and didn't see it. My friend however felt that men had at better. But since i have never been married and come from a divorced family its hard for me to make a good analysis of this question. God Bless

[CatherineM]

I think we each have our roles, and each have their own hardships.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Czech_Texan_Cowboy' post='1638870' date='Aug 26 2008, 05:21 PM']So I was in a discussion with a friend they expressed the opinion that men have it easier in life, than women in categories such as family life, economics, social roles, church roles etc.... And so I was wondering what was y'alls take on this? I for one am more traditional in i my vision of family roles, with a slight modification for modern times. And honestly i have no idea if this topic has been done before I read through a lot of forums and didn't see it. My friend however felt that men had at better. But since i have never been married and come from a divorced family its hard for me to make a good analysis of this question. God Bless[/quote]

I know that you were looking for a man's opinion, but I really would like to offer my opinion. I would not say that men have it "easier" when it comes to our society, but men do have it "different" and in many instances have it more "privileged." Again, this is coming from a woman's point of view, and my experiences. (I have to add, though, that this is [i]one[/i] woman's opinion.)

First, I don't believe that "Church roles" is the proper terminology, because the Church community should not be reduced to little jobs. Rather, the Church consists of Callings - whether this be the religious or the lay life. I understand why a woman can not be Called to the priesthood, and I understand why a man can not be Called to be a sister or nun. However, men and women are both welcomed to lector, cantor (whether as a soloist or as a member of the choir), and serve on the altar. (I understand some people do not support girl servers, but that's besides the point.) So, when it comes to the Church, we have equal but separate roles.

When it comes to family life - I do have to say that men are pretty fortunate. Granted, a husband can stay at home while his wife works. However, pregnancy does interfere with career life, at least depending on the type of job the woman has (some women can work during the entire 9 months); also, the mother needs to breastfeed which obviously the father can't do. It's naturally understood (not expected) that the wife will make more sacrifices when it comes to her professional career.

As a woman who positively can not wait to get my career started, I feel (again, this is personal opinion) that I can not be completely dedicated to my career, and be completely dedicated to my children at the same time. Men have that option, women really do not. (Please, I don't mean to insult anyone by saying this.)

I also feel objectified many times, regardless of what age the man is. It makes me extremely uncomfortable when I catch a man giving me a "look over" - and many are not discreet. Men do not have to deal with this, at worst they'll catch a bunch of women giggling at them. So they're fortunate.

Now I will also say that plenty of men feel that women have it "easier." Say the wife decides she really wants to stay home with the children, she's dreamed about this since she was young. The husband needs to work full-time, while also being there for his wife and children. He may be tired on Saturdays, but he wants to coach the kids' soccer games and whatnot. What if the husband wants to stay at home all the time? Society may say negative things about this. Women are fortunate that we can have professional careers or be stay-at-home or be both, but men usually don't have the option of being stay-at-home (well, they do, but it's frowned upon).

[Maggyie]

I am also a woman - but just to add my own two cents, I believe that men have it a lot harder than women. Alluding to what HisChildForever said above, I think women have a lot more flexibility and choices in terms of their role in society and in the family.

Caveat, that I myself am in favor of more traditional gender roles. However, a woman can choose to be a career woman or a stay-at-home mom (yay stay at home moms) or try to combine both without the culture thinking she is out of line. In some ways it is more "acceptable" for a woman to drift in and out of the work force as she raises her children and cares for aging relatives etc. Men on the other hand are not generally permitted this flexibility. They are kind of forced to focus on careers when in fact almost no one, man or woman, is EVER going to get deep self-fulfillment out of a job.

Additionally I think that women have many more opportunities to examine their status and vent about their difficulties. There are groups and resources specifically designed to help women navigate institutions and social situations. In some ways it's considered normal for a woman to complain about how she has to juggle housework, job, marriage etc. A lot of workplaces have become much more sensitive to the multiple roles a woman has to play. The ironic thing is that traditionally it was MEN who had to struggle to balance work and family life. They've been doing it for centuries! Unfortunately they are still expected to put their career first and they're not going to get as much sympathy from bosses or co-workers. This is actually a frequent theme in movies, for instance see Dustin Hoffman in [i]Kramer vs. Kramer[/i].

[ScottishConvert]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1639330' date='Aug 27 2008, 08:56 AM']I am also a woman - but just to add my own two cents, I believe that men have it a lot harder than women. Alluding to what HisChildForever said above, I think women have a lot more flexibility and choices in terms of their role in society and in the family.

Caveat, that I myself am in favor of more traditional gender roles. However, a woman can choose to be a career woman or a stay-at-home mom (yay stay at home moms) or try to combine both without the culture thinking she is out of line. In some ways it is more "acceptable" for a woman to drift in and out of the work force as she raises her children and cares for aging relatives etc. Men on the other hand are not generally permitted this flexibility. They are kind of forced to focus on careers when in fact almost no one, man or woman, is EVER going to get deep self-fulfillment out of a job.

Additionally I think that women have many more opportunities to examine their status and vent about their difficulties. There are groups and resources specifically designed to help women navigate institutions and social situations. In some ways it's considered normal for a woman to complain about how she has to juggle housework, job, marriage etc. A lot of workplaces have become much more sensitive to the multiple roles a woman has to play. The ironic thing is that traditionally it was MEN who had to struggle to balance work and family life. They've been doing it for centuries! Unfortunately they are still expected to put their career first and they're not going to get as much sympathy from bosses or co-workers. This is actually a frequent theme in movies, for instance see Dustin Hoffman in [i]Kramer vs. Kramer[/i].[/quote]

Agreed! Generally I think women have it easier.

[J.P.]

I don't know if women have it easier. This is along the same lines as "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"

This is an easy answer but I agree with CatherineM. We all have our roles in society and in the Church and each presents their pros and cons.

Men may have it easy in the family sense, while women may have it easy in the career sense.

It all balances out.

[Barbarus]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1639330' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:56 AM']The ironic thing is that traditionally it was MEN who had to struggle to balance work and family life. They've been doing it for centuries! Unfortunately they are still expected to put their career first and they're not going to get as much sympathy from bosses or co-workers. This is actually a frequent theme in movies, for instance see Dustin Hoffman in [i]Kramer vs. Kramer[/i].[/quote]
Actually, the whole "woman stay home/man work" thing is a relatively recent development; it's pretty hard to describe that as "traditional." For many, many centuries, couples have worked hard [i]together[/i] to make ends meet. Perhaps the bigger shift in recent years is where this work is taking place. Increasingly, we live and work in cities, whereas in earlier centuries many people scraped out a living by working the land they lived on. The whole concept of commuting to a job that's far away from where you live is an innovation, and one that has deep impacts on the development of familial roles because people who commute are not going to be at home.

One thing I've been seeing a lot of lately is home-based businesses, or people creatively finding ways to work out of the home for someone else. This is a return, in many ways, to earlier ways of living, when people used the resources on their own property. I know many, many people who supplement their incomes or who provide a first or second income for the family doing this.

As to whether men or women have it easier, frankly I think it's a pointless debate. Some men have it easier than others, as do some women. If a particular person finds him or herself in a situation in which he or she is unfairly burdened, then there are ways of addressing these inequalities.

[StColette]

[quote name='ScottishConvert' post='1639343' date='Aug 27 2008, 06:04 AM']Agreed! Generally I think women have it easier.[/quote]

lol Try having morning sickness for 9 months

[ScottishConvert]

[quote name='StColette' post='1639427' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:42 PM']lol Try having morning sickness for 9 months [/quote]

lol, ok. Good point.

Generally though, I think women have more opportunities, and its more accepted for hem to vent and talk things through. Men are expected to internalize, smell of elderberries it up, and deal with it.

Just my tuppence worth though

[StColette]

[quote name='ScottishConvert' post='1639430' date='Aug 27 2008, 10:51 AM']lol, ok. Good point.

Generally though, I think women have more opportunities, and its more accepted for hem to vent and talk things through. Men are expected to internalize, smell of elderberries it up, and deal with it.

Just my tuppence worth though [/quote]


I don't believe men are expected to be that way. At least, I don't expect my husband to be that way. Often times when he does internalize things and deal with it himself it tends to create a bigger problem than what is necessary. It's better to be open and discuss the things that are bothering you, even if it may cause your spouse to worry a little. Openness is key. I believe our society has put the burden of just get over it on men. I really doubt that's the way God had things planned.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='ScottishConvert' post='1639430' date='Aug 27 2008, 10:51 AM']Generally though, I think women have more opportunities, and its more accepted for hem to vent and talk things through. Men are expected to internalize, smell of elderberries it up, and deal with it.[/quote]

Right, men aren't "allowed" to be as "emotional" as women. That's probably why, statistically, more men commit suicide than women; also, the means by which men use to commit suicide leave less of a survival rate than the means women use. The men (specifically teenagers and young adults) feel that they will be mocked by society by crying to a friend or even seeking help.

So, anyway, women having more flexible choices: in theory, this is all true. But in practice, this isn't the way many people look at it. Plenty of men literally think that women should stay "in the kitchen" and that it's not appropriate for them to have/want careers - and many women think this way about women as well.

Edited August 27, 2008 by HisChildForever

[J.P.]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1639496' date='Aug 27 2008, 11:03 AM']Plenty of men literally think that women should stay "in the kitchen" and that it's not appropriate for them to have/want careers - and many women think this way about women as well.[/quote]

I suppose that's true. I haven't come by any in my circle of friends. The general consensus is that if a woman wants to work and have a family, then she should be able to. Myself, I might think twice about pursuing a woman that has a STRONG sense of wanting a career because I value the girl who wants to be a mom more than anything. I need a mother for my children.

The girl who wants to be a stay at home mom full-time is downright SEXY.

But really, say my sister wanted to be a career woman, I'd have no problem with that at all.

Edited August 27, 2008 by J.P.

[pan!c139]

[quote name='J.P.' post='1639547' date='Aug 27 2008, 10:59 AM']The girl who wants to be a stay at home mom full-time is downright SEXY. [/quote]




Funny lol.

I would like to have some sort of job before I get married, but once I'm married, I'm a mom. Eventually I'd like to freelance write at home for some extra cash, but I agree w u JP.

[StColette]

[quote name='J.P.' post='1639547' date='Aug 27 2008, 12:59 PM']Myself, I might think twice about pursuing a woman that has a STRONG sense of wanting a career because I value the girl who wants to be a mom more than anything. I need a mother for my children.

The girl who wants to be a stay at home mom full-time is downright SEXY.

But really, say my sister wanted to be a career woman, I'd have no problem with that at all.[/quote]

Careful lol those girls who have a strong sense of wanting a career can also have a strong sense of wanting to be a mom So don't jump to any conclusions too quickly.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='StColette' post='1639550' date='Aug 27 2008, 01:03 PM']Careful lol those girls who have a strong sense of wanting a career can also have a strong sense of wanting to be a mom So don't jump to any conclusions too quickly.[/quote]

Agreed. It's not really fair for this to be a black and white issue: a woman is either a full-time career woman or a full-time mom?

Edit: That's like saying a man is only full-time worker or full-time father. If a man can be both, why can't a woman be both?

Edited August 27, 2008 by HisChildForever