God's Existance

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639669' date='Aug 27 2008, 03:12 PM']The thing is, though, the age of the earth has nothing to do with evolution. You can't argue with science here, it's clear that the earth is older than 6,000 years.[/quote]

Agreed.

[havok579257]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639658' date='Aug 27 2008, 03:03 PM']Part of my thinking is that religion isnt the most important thing in my life and I dont really care to spend my days contemplating it.

I have school, I have a job... I have more important things than deciding whether or not there is a God.

Don't bother saying "your salvation is more important than all of that" because, well, i don't believe in salvation.[/quote]


Again, I ask you to answe my post above this one.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639669' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:12 PM']The thing is, though, the age of the earth has nothing to do with evolution. You can't argue with science here, it's clear that the earth is older than 6,000 years.[/quote]

Why can't I? Why's your ideas better than my ideas?

Every year, the ocean floor creates a certain amount of mud. These have been measured out by scientists.

From - [url="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c012.html"]evidence of a young earth[/url]

[quote]Each year, water and winds erode about 25 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean.(3) This material accumulates as loose sediment (i.e. mud) on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the mud in the whole ocean, including the continental shelves, is less than 400 meters.(4)

The main way currently known to remove the mud from the ocean floor is by plate tectonic subduction. That is, sea floor slides slowly (a few cm/year) beneath the continents, taking some sediment with it. According to secular scientific literature, that process presently removes only one billion tons per year.(4) As far as anyone knows, the other 25 billion tons per year simply accumulate. At that rate, erosion would deposit the present amount of sediment in less than 12 million years.

Yet according to evolutionary theory, erosion and plate subduction have been going on as long as the oceans have existed, an alleged three billion years. If that were so, the rates above imply that the oceans would be massively choked with mud dozens of kilometers deep. An alternative (creationist) explanation is that erosion from the waters of the Genesis Flood running off the continents deposited the present amount of mud within a short time about 5000 years ago.[/quote]

So, where is there only 5,000 years of mud on the ocean floor?

[quote]Every year, rivers(5) and other sources dump over 450 million tons of sodium into the ocean. Only 27% of this sodium manages to get back out of the sea each year.(6,7) As far as anyone knows, the remainder simply accumulates in the ocean. If the sea had no sodium to start with, it would have accumulated its present amount in less than 42 million years at today's input and output rates.(7) This is much less than the evolutionary age of the ocean, three billion years. The usual reply to this discrepancy is that past sodium inputs must have been less and outputs greater. However, calculations which are as generous as possible to evolutionary scenarios still give a maximum age of only 62 million years.(7) Calculations(8) for many other sea water elements give much younger ages for the ocean.[/quote]

Why only 62 million years of salt in the oceans?

[quote]The total energy stored in the Earth's magnetic field has steadily decreased by a factor of 2.7 over the past 1,000 years.(9) Evolutionary theories explaining this rapid decrease, as well as how the Earth could have maintained its magnetic field for billions of years, are very complex and inadequate. A much better creationist theory exists. It is straightforward, based on sound physics, and explains many features of the field: its creation, rapid reversals during the Genesis Flood, surface intensity decreases and increases until the time of Christ, and a steady decay since then.(10) This theory matches paleomagnetic, historic, and present data.(11) The main result is that the field's total energy (not surface intensity) has always decayed at least as fast as now. At that rate the field could not be more than 10,000 years old.(12)[/quote]

Why has the earth's magnetic field only decayed 10,000 years?

[quote]In many mountainous areas, strata thousands of feet thick are bent and folded into hairpin shapes. The conventional geologic time-scale says these formations were deeply buried and solidified for hundreds of millions of years before they were bent. Yet the folding occurred without cracking, with radii so small that the entire formation had to be still wet and unsolidified when the bending occurred. This implies that the folding occurred less than thousands of years after deposition.(13)[/quote]

[quote]All naturally occurring families of radioactive elements generate helium as they decay. If such decay took place for billions of years, as alleged by evolutionists, much helium should have found its way into the Earth's atmosphere. The rate of loss of helium from the atmosphere into space is calculable and small. Taking that loss into account, the atmosphere today has only 0.05% of the amount of helium it would have accumulated in five billion years.(19) This means the atmosphere is much younger than the alleged evolutionary age.

A study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research shows that helium produced by radioactive decay in deep, hot rocks has not had time to escape. Though the rocks are supposed to be over one billion years old, their large helium retention suggests an age of only thousands of years.(20)[/quote]

Why is there only a few thousand years of helium in our atmosphere?

As I said, why don't you learn a little of the other side, before making judgments on something you know hardly anything about. Now let's get back on topic. Lets talk about God's existence, and help someone who once believed, but withered away at the face of opposition!

Edited August 27, 2008 by MakeYouThink

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1639699' date='Aug 27 2008, 01:50 PM']Again, I ask you to answe my post above this one.[/quote]
What are you expecting me to say, exactly? That Satan came to me and said "ABANDON GOD! WOOOOOGA BOOOOGA!!!!"?

I simply stopped believing and fell away. Isn't that a good enough answer for you? It's the truth.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1639701' date='Aug 27 2008, 01:52 PM']Why can't I? Why's your ideas better than my ideas?

Every year, the ocean floor creates a certain amount of mud. These have been measured out by scientists.

From - [url="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c012.html"]evidence of a young earth[/url]



So, where is there only 5,000 years of mud on the ocean floor?



Why only 62 million years of salt in the oceans?



Why has the earth's magnetic field only decayed 10,000 years?





Why is there only a few thousand years of helium in our atmosphere?

As I said, why don't you learn a little of the other side, before making judgments on something you know hardly anything about. Now let's get back on topic. Lets talk about God's existence, and help someone who once believed, but withered away at the face of opposition![/quote]
No offense, but are you blind? Even your sources say that the earth is older than 6,000 years! 62 million years of salt? Last I checked, 62 million is more than 6,000.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639708' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:58 PM']No offense, but are you blind? Even your sources say that the earth is older than 6,000 years! 62 million years of salt? Last I checked, 62 million is more than 6,000.[/quote]

But what about the magnetic decay of the earth's magnetic field only being 10,000 years old?

The earth is not billions of years old, science doesn't support that.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639708' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:58 PM']No offense, but are you blind? Even your sources say that the earth is older than 6,000 years! 62 million years of salt? Last I checked, 62 million is more than 6,000.[/quote]

But what about the magnetic decay of the earth's magnetic field only being 10,000 years old? Or that there is only a few thousand years of helium? And what about the mud on the ocean floor? And why couldn't God have created oceans that already had sodium in them? Why would he create salt water fish without salt water?

The earth is not billions of years old, science doesn't support that.

Edited August 27, 2008 by MakeYouThink

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1639716' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:05 PM']But what about the magnetic decay of the earth's magnetic field only being 10,000 years old? Or that there is only a few thousand years of helium? And what about the mud on the ocean floor? And why couldn't God have created oceans that already had sodium in them? Why would he create salt water fish without salt water?

The earth is not billions of years old, science doesn't support that.[/quote]
You're going to find yourself in a very small minority if you believe that. Science DOES support the earth being billions of years old.

Here's a link that addresses your "proof," though if you have no scientific training, it may not make sense:
[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html#creadate"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of...h.html#creadate[/url]

Edited August 27, 2008 by fidei defensor

[HisChildForever]

[quote]The earth is not billions of years old, science doesn't support that.[/quote]

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639721' date='Aug 27 2008, 04:08 PM']You're going to find yourself in a very small minority if you believe that. Science DOES support the earth being billions of years old.

Here's a link that addresses your "proof," though if you have no scientific training, it may not make sense:
[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html#creadate"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of...h.html#creadate[/url][/quote]

I read through it, and I do have a background in science.

I also have a background in Journalism, and the question bears to be ask, do they have a vested interest to keep their POV? The same could be said about young Earth ages, and so, who decides? Who is the only one that has the authority to say what is truth and what is not?

People here would say the magisterium, and you would say nobody has the authority to say what is truth, but I have a different opinion, and that God is the only person who has the authority to say it is truth or it is not.

Holy men can be wrong in they're opinions, god forbid. I'm not saying anybody not believing what I believe is in sin, so I don't really care.

Lets leave it be. I think you have gotten all in a huh because you don't want to deal with the real issue, why you don't have faith anymore, and so you want to sidestep it. I know the tactic very well, and you will forever be lost to faith, unless you get out of the box you put yourself in.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1639748' date='Aug 27 2008, 02:21 PM']I read through it, and I do have a background in science.

I also have a background in Journalism, and the question bears to be ask, do they have a vested interest to keep their POV? The same could be said about young Earth ages, and so, who decides? Who is the only one that has the authority to say what is truth and what is not?

People here would say the magisterium, and you would say nobody has the authority to say what is truth, but I have a different opinion, and that God is the only person who has the authority to say it is truth or it is not.

Holy men can be wrong in they're opinions, god forbid. I'm not saying anybody not believing what I believe is in sin, so I don't really care.

Lets leave it be. I think you have gotten all in a huh because you don't want to deal with the real issue, why you don't have faith anymore, and so you want to sidestep it. I know the tactic very well, and you will forever be lost to faith, unless you get out of the box you put yourself in.[/quote]
I know your method as well, to accuse others of trying to avoid things and make yourself out to be the hero who is trying to save my damned soul. I'm not avoiding the faith issue. If I was avoiding it, why would I come back to this phorum? Why would I talk about my disbelief? You're the one who brought up the age of the earth, and no offense, but it's a ridiculous belief. A very small minority of people believe it, none of them serious scientists.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639758' date='Aug 27 2008, 03:27 PM']I know your method as well, to accuse others of trying to avoid things and make yourself out to be the hero who is trying to save my damned soul. I'm not avoiding the faith issue. If I was avoiding it, why would I come back to this phorum? Why would I talk about my disbelief? You're the one who brought up the age of the earth, and no offense, but it's a ridiculous belief. A very small minority of people believe it, none of them serious scientists.[/quote]

And that is why I am trying to keep us on topic. I care about you, and I care about your soul. I am not going to say you are damned, but I want to give you how I was brought back to spiritual health.

I want to give you hope. I'm taking you to the river, its up for you to drink it up. Ask yourself this. After I had my doubts, why did I cling to Jesus more and more?

What are your specific doubts?

[Deb]

God's time is not our time. Who can say how many years made up one of God's days in creating the earth?
Someone could prove to me that the earth was a zillion years old and it would not have any bearing on whether or not I believe in God. God has shown me he exists.

According to the Catechism:
When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come ‘from flesh and blood,' but from ‘my Father who is in heaven' (Mt. 16:17; cf. Gal 1:15; Mt 11:25). Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. ‘Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth'"


I will pray that God will shower his grace upon you, that you will embrace it, and that your faith will be restored to you.

[havok579257]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1639705' date='Aug 27 2008, 03:55 PM']What are you expecting me to say, exactly? That Satan came to me and said "ABANDON GOD! WOOOOOGA BOOOOGA!!!!"?

I simply stopped believing and fell away. Isn't that a good enough answer for you? It's the truth.[/quote]


That was not the question I was asking. SO what I expect is for you to answer the question I asked which is:

What caused you to believe in christianity at first and was such a strong belief you considered becoming a priest. Becoming a priest is not something done lightly and there is a reason for you belief in the first place, so what was it?