Heres A Question

[alimarie_11]

ohkay

i wasn't sure what topic to put this under, but here i go


OHkay, if i got this right, wich i'm sure i do..

So if you miss one sunday, of mass, just because you feel like it, that is a mortal sin.

SO what i'm asking here is, Why does someone who misses one day of mass, and someone who commits murder go to the same place, hell?

if neither is sorry for thier sin, that is.


How is this just, and right?


to me it seeems completelyyyyyy ridiculous, and i may have misunderstood, but this is what i was taught, growing up, you miss mass, = mortal sin


could someone fill me in?

Edited August 25, 2008 by alimarie_11

[havok579257]

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1637848' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:56 PM']ohkay

i wasn't sure what topic to put this under, but here i go


OHkay, if i got this right, wich i'm sure i do..

So if you miss one sunday, of mass, just because you feel like it, that is a mortal sin.

SO what i'm asking here is, Why does someone who misses one day of mass, and someone who commits murder go to the same place, hell?

if neither is sorry for thier sin, that is.


How is this just, and right?


to me it seeems completelyyyyyy ridiculous, and i may have misunderstood, but this is what i was taught, growing up, you miss mass, = mortal sin


could someone fill me in?[/quote]

Heaven is God's house. He has rules of who can come in and who can't. Just like you and your house. Say for example you refuse to let murders into your house and also people born in asia. Some people might think, how can you lump those 2 people into the same catagory. The thing is, its your house and you can decide who enters and who is not allowed. Its the same with God. Heaven is his house, so he get to decide who gets in and who doesn't. Follow his rules or you don't get to come into his house. Simple as that.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1637903' date='Aug 25 2008, 03:33 PM']Heaven is God's house. He has rules of who can come in and who can't. Just like you and your house. Say for example you refuse to let murders into your house and also people born in asia. Some people might think, how can you lump those 2 people into the same catagory. The thing is, its your house and you can decide who enters and who is not allowed. Its the same with God. Heaven is his house, so he get to decide who gets in and who doesn't. Follow his rules or you don't get to come into his house. Simple as that.[/quote]
In other words, God gives you logic, but he doesn't follow it.

[havok579257]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1637906' date='Aug 25 2008, 05:35 PM']In other words, God gives you logic, but he doesn't follow it.[/quote]


such as how?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1637908' date='Aug 25 2008, 03:37 PM']such as how?[/quote]
Let me preface this by saying I'm going to specifically play devil's advocate here, I don't necessarily completely agree with either side.

It is logical and well known that someone who has murdered has commited a greater evil than someone who has missed Mass. However, if it's true that God sends both to hell and lumps them together, doesn't that defy the logic that one is more evil than the other?

[havok579257]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1637917' date='Aug 25 2008, 05:43 PM']Let me preface this by saying I'm going to specifically play devil's advocate here, I don't necessarily completely agree with either side.

It is logical and well known that someone who has murdered has commited a greater evil than someone who has missed Mass. However, if it's true that God sends both to hell and lumps them together, doesn't that defy the logic that one is more evil than the other?[/quote]


Its logical that one is worse than the other? Let me ask you where you are judging this off of. Are you trying to use what we as humans judge as worse or are you using what God says is worse?

Cause if its the first, it won't work. Your then trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1637917' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:43 PM']Let me preface this by saying I'm going to specifically play devil's advocate here, I don't necessarily completely agree with either side.

It is logical and well known that someone who has murdered has commited a greater evil than someone who has missed Mass. However, if it's true that God sends both to hell and lumps them together, doesn't that defy the logic that one is more evil than the other?[/quote]

LOL!

I can lump them together logically.

Any sin is saying you know better than God. So, if you think you are better than God, why would God want you in his house, because you'll tell him how much smarter and better than he is.

Would you invite someone who would disrespect you into your home?

[HisChildForever]

You guys are killing me.

[havok579257]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1637924' date='Aug 25 2008, 05:47 PM']LOL!

I can lump them together logically.

Any sin is saying you know better than God. So, if you think you are better than God, why would God want you in his house, because you'll tell him how much smarter and better than he is.

Would you invite someone who would disrespect you into your home?[/quote]


nice post

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1637926' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:47 PM']You guys are killing me.[/quote]
It's like I always say, there's no such thing as an Atheist, only someone who is looking for an excuse to live any way they want, and then blame it on those God believers for trying to guilt them. LOL!

[havok579257]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1637928' date='Aug 25 2008, 05:49 PM']It's like I always say, there's no such thing as an Atheist, only someone who is looking for an excuse to live any way they want, and then blame it on those God believers for trying to guilt them. LOL! [/quote]


I never thought of t that way. Nice post.

[HisChildForever]

[b] The Catechism of the Catholic Church. [/b] (sheesh, I'm on a role today.)

II. THE LORD'S DAY


This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103
The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:


We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106
Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107


Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108
[b]2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people. [/b]

The Sunday Eucharist

[b]2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord's Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church's life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."110 [/b]

"Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."111

2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age.112 The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful "not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another."113


Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer. . . . Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal. . . . We have often said: "This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it."114
2179 "A parish is a definite community of the Christian faithful established on a stable basis within a particular church; the pastoral care of the parish is entrusted to a pastor as its own shepherd under the authority of the diocesan bishop."[b]115 It is the place where all the faithful can be gathered together for the Sunday celebration of the Eucharist.[/b] The parish initiates the Christian people into the ordinary expression of the liturgical life: it gathers them together in this celebration; it teaches Christ's saving doctrine; it practices the charity of the Lord in good works and brotherly love:


You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cried out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, the accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests.116

[b]The Sunday obligation

2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."117 "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."118

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.119 Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God's holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. [/b]

2183 "If because of lack of a sacred minister or for other grave cause participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family or, as occasion offers, in groups of families."120

A day of grace and rest from work

2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"121 human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.122

2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.123 Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health.


The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.124
2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.

2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.

2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays. They have to give everyone a public example of prayer, respect, and joy and defend their traditions as a precious contribution to the spiritual life of society. If a country's legislation or other reasons require work on Sunday, the day should nevertheless be lived as the day of our deliverance which lets us share in this "festal gathering," this "assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."125





Just to add - missing a Holy Day of Obligation is also a grave sin.
As you can see from what I've posted, Sunday Mass is no simple thing.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1637906' date='Aug 25 2008, 04:35 PM']In other words, God gives you logic, but he doesn't follow it.[/quote]

LOL. That's a sad statement but it is funny and I think many people genuinely think this. I love the Jewish mentality which is very much about throwing up your hands and admitting that the ways of God just sometimes are not logical to us and not stressing yourself about. There are many Jewish folk songs and stories about stones crying tears and things like that, which always end in the lesson "don't try to look for logic". It's just something we have to submit ourselves to, that we can't fully know or understand the mind of God. Because he's God.

[dairygirl4u2c]

if God has premise X, which is that two mortal sinners should get the the same punishment,,, then we cannot say it's illogical for him to do it, cause he set the premises. what to do with sinners is compeltley a moral statement, and not something we could refute like a tree falls because of gravity. there's an inherent statement occuring there.

with that said... just playing devil's advocate though, you could question whether God makes that the premise, and then argue that the premise is that punishments are to be proportional to the crime, and to claim God says all get the same is then illogical for the person claiming it.
One of course should not assume God is illogical,,, but rather that the claims about him are.

Some say that there's levels of hell. I personally subscribe to that.
There's not enough evidence, from even a catholic proit of view to my understanding,,,, to say they get lumped together, necessarily.

[alimarie_11]

well thank you to some of you, though i will never understand, and thats another reason why i will never ...submit to the catholic faith


some of you are helpful and i am truely greatful




[quote]It's like I always say, there's no such thing as an Atheist, only someone who is looking for an excuse to live any way they want, and then blame it on those God believers for trying to guilt them. LOL![/quote]

but this is unnecessary, maybe some of you don't realize how unapproachable you are, i'm just simly looking for answers, not stirring up problems, and making excuses.