What Bush Has Done For The Pro-life Cause In America

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='iheartjp2' post='1636015' date='Aug 23 2008, 09:12 PM']I think you made some really excellent points and I really like your topic.

I have to say, though, [u][b]capital punishment is a[/b][/u] particularly helpful resource when trying to get the crime rate to go down.[/quote]

Surely you meant to write "isn't".

The death penalty has done NOTHING to deter crime. In fact America has grown ever more violent by the year. Some of the most heinous and unimaginable crimes in the world (aside from major things like genocide and abortion) happen right here on our own soil. So let's just keep putting human beings to death--like putting down sick animals. Yep, that'll make things better. Not!

Edited August 24, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Selah' post='1636008' date='Aug 23 2008, 09:09 PM']So, I guess he isn't satan incarnate is he? [/quote]

Because being pro-life makes a person a good President? Or--let me rephrase the question--all it takes to be considered a good President is to be pro-life?

Ugh. So tired of this.

I like your icon, BTW.

[KnightofChrist]

The death penalty can deter crime, but it does not matter the main purpose is justice for the victim and/or crime.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1636198' date='Aug 23 2008, 10:59 PM']Because being pro-life makes a person a good President? Or--let me rephrase the question--all it takes to be considered a good President is to be pro-life?

Ugh. So tired of this.

I like your icon, BTW.[/quote]
On the other hand, you'd make a pretty bad president not being pro-life.
I think all that post was saying is that "he can't be all bad."
It's quite true, he is not "Satan incarnate." No one ever said that he's done well in other areas... That would be a different topic, yes?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1636205' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:02 PM']On the other hand, you'd make a pretty bad president not being pro-life.
I think all that post was saying is that "he can't be all bad."
It's quite true, he is not "Satan incarnate." No one ever said that he's done well in other areas... That would be a different topic, yes?[/quote]

Saying he isn't satan incarnate is--I'm sorry--profoundly silly. This is NOT an appropriate argument/defense when having a discussion about whether or not someone is a good President. Becuase OF COURSE he's not satan incarnate, therefore the assertion of such as a defense against him being "bad" is really just not an apt argument.

Also, WRT a pro-choice person being a bad President, this is really not the issue in a discussion about the current President. This is also not an appropriate defense.

As for a different topic...no. My comments about GWB fit right in with the current topic, because I was pointing out that being pro-life does NOT make GWB a good President and that I for one am tired of the abortion being the litmus test for what makes a good or bad President. My goodness! So if we had a President who ruined our country but he did one good thing by putting a pro-life judge on the Supreme Court, this would excuse the fact that he brought our country to ruin? So tired of it!

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636203' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:01 PM']The death penalty can deter crime, but it does not matter the main purpose is justice for the victim and/or crime.[/quote]

It has NOT deterred crime in America. This is the issue.

The only place where the death penalty deters crime is in radically Muslim countries where a woman can get stoned for adultery or a theif can have his hands chopped off. Yep, this will deter crime...and it does. Saudi Arabia, for example, has a extremely low crime rate in so far as the type of crime we have here in America. But is that what we want? To be like Saudi Arabia and cut off hands and stone people?

[MakeYouThink]

Reading some of the responses, I can see that what I knew a year ago did happen. Bush has been demonized, and we are saying he is evil, and he has cost America a lot!

Guess what, the next person will be worse, be it McCain or Obama, probably Obama, and the next person will be worse than that.

Hey, did you know Obama is 13th cousin to the Current VP and 8th cousin of the President. . .

I guess the power stays in the family, so to speak! LOL!

Obama will win, mark my words, and we will have a few years of suffering. I have a feeling things will change in 2012, and no I don't mean the second coming, but some change for the better!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1636244' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:17 AM']It has NOT deterred crime in America. This is the issue.

The only place where the death penalty deters crime is in radically Muslim countries where a woman can get stoned for adultery or a theif can have his hands chopped off. Yep, this will deter crime...and it does. Saudi Arabia, for example, has a extremely low crime rate in so far as the type of crime we have here in America. But is that what we want? To be like Saudi Arabia and cut off hands and stone people?[/quote]

Again it does not effect the need for Capital Crimes to be punished with Capital Punishment and I still disagree. There is evidence that Capital Punishment reduces murders in the Untied States.

[img]http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/images/dpstatsyearly7wq.jpg[/img]

Edited August 24, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636283' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:32 AM']Again it does not effect the need for Capital Crimes to be punished with Capital Punishment and I still disagree. There is evidence that Capital Punishment reduces murders in the Untied States.

[img]http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/images/dpstatsyearly7wq.jpg[/img][/quote]

One could argue that if you are putting all the first time killers who would be serial killers to death, there would be less murders. Therefore, it is not a deterant for criminals, but a prevention of further murders!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1636235' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:14 PM']Saying he isn't satan incarnate is--I'm sorry--profoundly silly. This is NOT an appropriate argument/defense when having a discussion about whether or not someone is a good President. Becuase OF COURSE he's not satan incarnate, therefore the assertion of such as a defense against him being "bad" is really just not an apt argument.

Also, WRT a pro-choice person being a bad President, this is really not the issue in a discussion about the current President. This is also not an appropriate defense.

As for a different topic...no. My comments about GWB fit right in with the current topic, because I was pointing out that being pro-life does NOT make GWB a good President and that I for one am tired of the abortion being the litmus test for what makes a good or bad President. My goodness! So if we had a President who ruined our country but he did one good thing by putting a pro-life judge on the Supreme Court, this would excuse the fact that he brought our country to ruin? So tired of it![/quote]
Nothing you said in this post is anything I'd call incorrect.
However, I sorta wish that you took a slightly less deprecating tone. I did my very best with my last post to show the utmost respect and thoughtfulness regarding you and your opinions.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1636291' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:39 PM']One could argue that if you are putting all the first time killers who would be serial killers to death, there would be less murders. Therefore, it is not a deterant for criminals, but a prevention of further murders![/quote]

The prevention of further murders is part of it no doubt because murderers murder in prison socitey as well. But I'm pretty sure that most of the stats in the chart above uses prisoners who where given life, or death.

Anyway this is off topic in my opinion so I will stop high jacking the thread.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1636302' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:46 AM']Nothing you said in this post is anything I'd call incorrect.
However, I sorta wish that you took a slightly less deprecating tone. I did my very best with my last post to show the utmost respect and thoughtfulness regarding you and your opinions.[/quote]

It only seems deprecating becuase you interpreted it that way.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1636291' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:39 AM']One could argue that if you are putting all the first time killers who would be serial killers to death, there would be less murders. Therefore, it is not a deterant for criminals, but a prevention of further murders![/quote]


It's not, though. This is the argument. These criminals clearly aren't concerned about dying.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1636337' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:17 AM']It only seems deprecating becuase you interpreted it that way.[/quote]
Accepting that, I don't think I'll ever be able to understand you properly.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1636340' date='Aug 24 2008, 01:21 AM']Accepting that, I don't think I'll ever be able to understand you properly. [/quote]

Here's why: Because you don't take my words at face value. I'm trying to have a conversation about a TOPIC. Instead of just reading and digesting what I'm saying, you start trying to interpret my tone or my mood or whatever it is you're doing, and your interpretation comes out negative. That is not my fault. I haven't done anything. It's you who are interpreting my words (or tone, whatever) to this negative result and then blaming me for it. There is nothing going on here, I can assure you.