Homeopathy

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='picchick' post='1636658' date='Aug 24 2008, 01:40 PM']Homeopathy is becoming more and more into the health care field. It is not exact science but you do not need to be for it to be used in medical practice. There are two types of doctors, your regular M.D.'s and your D.O. (Doctorate in Osteopathy). The latter is more wholistic in their treatment. They will be more likely to use homeopathy in their medicine.

It is extremely dangerous to do his on your own. Herbs should be treated like prescription medicine. Although it is safe, if you are mixing your own, you might be mixing a lethal something. If you are already taking medication then this can also add to it.

For example, let's say someone has a blood clotting problem. They get a lot of blood clots. The doctor puts them on coumadin or warfarin. Then the guy learns that he can take garlic as well to thin the blood. He might just over thin his blood. This is very very dangerous.

If you are taking herbal supplements you need to discuss with a nurse or doctor what you are taking for your own safety. I also wouldn't trust anyone to mix herbs unless they have some sort of certification or education to show that they know what they ar doing.

Meg[/quote]

I totally agree. Well, anyway, you're the professional so it doesn't matter if I agree. But yeah, this is so true. It's the same with Chinese medicine. There are some things a person can read and study on their own and safely put into practice but that's just a few things, like if you know you low on energy there are some common Chinese herbs you can take without a doctor and usually a good web site or even directions on the bottle will tell you how to do it. But actual medical care and major usage of herbs should be done by a doctor or certified practitioner of Chinese medicine. It truly IS like prescribing medicine. I went through several rounds of therapy through a Chinese doctor and he literally wrote a Chinese prescription which I then took to a Chinese phamacist who created the recipes for me with strict directions on how to prepare the herbs, how much to consume for each dose, how often to take it, how to store it, and what foods and liquids to avoid while on the herb therapy. Yup, it's real medicine and should be treated as such.

[icelandic_iceskater]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1636086' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:07 PM']She wants it when she wants it. Never complains about pain (and believe me she WOULD). She actually loves corn, we just don't eat it very often. Nuts she can take or leave. I'll run it by her doctor, but because I know how she is about pain and such I am still disinclined to think its food related. She eats so little wheat that I would think that when she eats less (or none at all) her skin would get better, and it doesn't.[/quote]sorry in advance for getting off topic

Maybe she has an orange juice allergy? A few of my sibs can get some pretty nasty eczema if they even have just one drink of oj, but as long as they lay off its not too bad. I feel so bad for them because oranges are pretty much their favorite fruit. Thankfully my older sibs grew out of it around 4th grade or so. You may want to try keeping citrus foods away from her a week and see if it helps.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='icelandic_iceskater' post='1636683' date='Aug 24 2008, 03:32 PM']sorry in advance for getting off topic

Maybe she has an orange juice allergy? A few of my sibs can get some pretty nasty eczema if they even have just one drink of oj, but as long as they lay off its not too bad. I feel so bad for them because oranges are pretty much their favorite fruit. Thankfully my older sibs grew out of it around 4th grade or so. You may want to try keeping citrus foods away from her a week and see if it helps. [/quote]

Nope, she almost never drinks OJ. I'm guessing if it IS allergies then Meg is on the right track suggesting it's general allergies rather than it being related to a specific food type. The only thing I haven't tried is stopping her from eating meat... and... well... I'd kind of like her to live. I like her an awful lot. She wouldn't be eating much of anything if I stopped meat, so, yeah...

[picchick]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' post='1636696' date='Aug 24 2008, 02:51 PM']Nope, she almost never drinks OJ. I'm guessing if it IS allergies then Meg is on the right track suggesting it's general allergies rather than it being related to a specific food type. The only thing I haven't tried is stopping her from eating meat... and... well... I'd kind of like her to live. I like her an awful lot. She wouldn't be eating much of anything if I stopped meat, so, yeah... [/quote]

to avoid further hijack I am sending you a PM

Edited August 24, 2008 by picchick

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='picchick' post='1636729' date='Aug 24 2008, 04:34 PM'] to avoid further hijack I am sending you a PM [/quote]

Good idea.

[jeffpugh]

I've had some personal doubts about Homoeopathy (Read, the stuff that comes in alcohol tinctures, sugar pellets, etc, not "herbal" medicines). I think L_D once stated his doubts about homoeopathy and that's where my own questioning unfolded. My family uses it regularly. to me, there seems to be some 'superstitions' behind what remedies are needed, etc such as muscle testing. I'm on the side of "what symptoms do I have, and what is needed to counteract those symptoms?" Another thing that bugs me is how the antidotes to the remedies are other remedies... my question is where do they contradict? (they must... unless it is a real medicine... but then I guess there are body compositions that must be considered when "neutralisation" is to be factored)
[quote name='picchick' post='1636653' date='Aug 24 2008, 01:34 PM']You are officially awesome!








She just might have allergies in general. I would have her tested if you can. I work currently in an allergy clinic. People (especially kids) will come in with horrible eczema. Often it can be the cause of an allergy. The doctor will give the Elidel and hydrocorti...and it will clear the flare and then the eczema will lessen because they are avoiding the stuff they are allergic too. These allergies might also be environmental.

Kids might or might not avoid the foods that they are allergic too. They might love it to death. But then they break out in eczema, hives, whatever else.

Back to the topic:
Homeopathic medicine is great. As long as it is not dangerous, I think that it can be used. Of course doctors need to know what you are doing because some of the homeopathic stuff can interact with diagnosed meds. We use a lot of homeopathic stuff in the allergy clinic to help people tolerate food allergies and environmental allergies. We also use homeopthic techiniques. And we are not a new age clinic. We are like a basic doctor's office.

Meg[/quote]
Amazing! You're in the western medical field and you haven't scoffed at herbal remedies/homoeopathy! I've heard nothing but contempt from some doctors about this subject. Some just cling single mindedly to the synthesised chemicals we've developed in our modern times. Now, I'm not against our "findings", but I don't think they're THE solution.

[CatherineM]

[quote Amazing! You're in the western medical field and you haven't scoffed at herbal remedies/homoeopathy! I've heard nothing but contempt from some doctors about this subject. Some just cling single mindedly to the synthesised chemicals we've developed in our modern times. Now, I'm not against our "findings", but I don't think they're THE solution.
[/quote]

You're right about that. My brother and uncle are/were doctors, and they think chiropractors are a step above dog doctors, so I can imagine how they feel about homeopaths.

[jeffpugh]

It's sad. Cause Chiropractic has kept my mom out of a wheelchair, and has been quite helpful to me in the past.

[CatherineM]

It's all about turf. Doctors don't like alternative stuff anymore than lawyers like mediators.

[Fidei Defensor]

I love alternative and natural medicine. I believe it can be very powerful, so it should only be taken as directed. However, I think in some cases, it can be as good or even better than conventional medicine.

Homeopathy, however, the jury is still out. But I guess if it's effective for someone, they should continue using it.

[picchick]

Something to add which I think is totally awesome. This is from a June issue of National Geographic. As some of you may know, there is a rise of antibiotic resistent bacteria. MRSA, VRE, ESBL are just some of them. Doctors are starting to use a natural ingredient to help protect wounds from infection: HONEY! It is made from a special tree and is pretty potent. But what they do is they put it on gauze and then the gauze on the wound. Pretty neato to me

Meg

[mommas_boy]

So, this discussion gave me an idea for a really cool chemistry lesson. Or, at least *I* think it's really cool because I tend to be a chemistry teacher with a slightly different view of how chemistry should be taught. Anyway, the following lesson you can do at home: it's a webquest! Which means that you play a role, and try to solve a series of problems in that role by using the internet. The lesson was designed to do three things at once: teach about oxidation/reduction chemistry, relate it to a real-life world problem, AND relate it to a world culture. This should make the lesson pretty memorable.

Anyway, have a look at it if you like. I figured I would post it here as a "thank you" for the inspiration, since I will certainly be using this in my classroom.

[center]Tea WebQuest[/center]

You and your partner are chemists working for a company that is trying to fight the signs of aging. You've spent hours and hours pouring over the internet, looking at webpages and searching for hints and patterns in your quest for the fountain of youth. Tired, you take a drink of your tea for an extra shot of caffeine to wake you up. Curious, but mostly bored, you and your partner decide to take a break and learn about tea instead of doing your jobs. Tsk tsk.

You and your partner are to use the internet to answer the questions below. You must cite each source's URL. You may use Wikipedia to complete the assignment, but be advised that it can get a little too technical. If a source confuses you, move on to another source to find the answer.

1)What country did tea originate from?

2)Describe some aspects of that country's tea culture. Why was it important?

3)At one point, tea began to be used as a medicine, instead of only as a drink (but people still drank it just for fun, too). Why is this?

4)You and your partner stumble across this website: (http://xrl.us/teaHealth). You find out that the polyphenols are powerful what?

5)Intrigued, you decide to search more. What is the relationship between these powerful drugs (your answer to question four) and aging?

6)What are free-radicals? What do they do to the body?

7)Look up oxidation and reduction. An anti-oxidant is also a reductant or reducing agent. Does this mean that it donates an electron to the free-radical, or steals one away? Once the electron has been exchanged, is it a free-radical anymore?

8)How could this information be used? What sorts of products could anti-oxidants be incorporated into? Where can we get anti-oxidants naturally?

Chinese medicine is full of examples like these. Because their culture was so different from Western cultures, they turned to different remedies that became a part of their daily lives, much like the tea. Pharmaceutical companies are just now turning to these ancient cures to learn new lessons about the body and how to heal it. This is one very good job in the chemical field to get into.

[Innocent]

[quote name='picchick' post='1636653' date='Aug 25 2008, 12:04 AM']Back to the topic:
Homeopathic medicine is great. As long as it is not dangerous, I think that it can be used. Of course doctors need to know what you are doing because some of the homeopathic stuff can interact with diagnosed meds. We use a lot of homeopathic stuff in the allergy clinic to help people tolerate food allergies and environmental allergies. We also use homeopthic techiniques. And we are not a new age clinic. We are like a basic doctor's office.[/quote]

Hi. Thanks for the input, which I respect since you're a medical professional.

As I said before, I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence for the effectiveness of Homeopathy, as you have provided by stating that you've found it useful for those with allergies. But still, that doesn't explain how it works. I mean, the principles behind it are still totally obscure to me, which makes me uneasy.

I'm sure your clinic is not new-age, I too personally know some reputable Allopathic doctors who would recommend Homeopathic medicine at times. But still that doesn't answer my main doubt: How does it work?

[Innocent]

[quote name='picchick' post='1636658' date='Aug 25 2008, 12:10 AM']Homeopathy is becoming more and more into the health care field. It is not exact science but you do not need to be for it to be used in medical practice. There are two types of doctors, your regular M.D.'s and your D.O. (Doctorate in Osteopathy). The latter is more wholistic in their treatment. They will be more likely to use homeopathy in their medicine.[/quote]

I'm sorry I can't find a primary source other than Wikipedia right now, but from the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy"]Wikipedia article on Homeopathy[/url], I find this at the bottom of the article:

[quote]Two countries which formerly offered homeopathy under their public health services have withdrawn this privilege. At the start of 2004, homeopathic medications, with some exceptions, were no longer covered by the German public health service, and in June 2005, the Swiss Government, after a 5-year trial, withdrew homeopathy and four other complementary treatments, stating that they did not meet efficacy and cost-effectiveness criteria, though insurance can be bought to cover such treatments provided by a medical doctor.[/quote]

Hahnemann was German, wasn't he? If Germany stops covering Homeopathy, then they must have serious doubts about it.

[quote name='picchick' post='1636658' date='Aug 25 2008, 12:10 AM']It is extremely dangerous to do his on your own. Herbs should be treated like prescription medicine. Although it is safe, if you are mixing your own, you might be mixing a lethal something. If you are already taking medication then this can also add to it.

For example, let's say someone has a blood clotting problem. They get a lot of blood clots. The doctor puts them on coumadin or warfarin. Then the guy learns that he can take garlic as well to thin the blood. He might just over thin his blood. This is very very dangerous.

If you are taking herbal supplements you need to discuss with a nurse or doctor what you are taking for your own safety. I also wouldn't trust anyone to mix herbs unless they have some sort of certification or education to show that they know what they ar doing.

Meg[/quote]

I can understand how herbal remedies could work. Herbal remedies in different cultures are often the result of discoveries and information and observation passed down from generation to generation, and they've had a lot of time to discover the many medicinal uses of various plants. But Homeopathy, from what I understand, had its basic principles formulated by one man in a few years. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) Not to say a field which has its principles formulated by one man in a few years is wrong, but when the principles are very unclear, I'm confused about how it works.

And, in herbal remedies, one can understand that the herbs are indeed having an effect on body chemistry, since they are given in reasonable concentrations. But in homeopathy, the usual concentration of medicine (again, correct me if I'm wrong) is one part in 10^60 parts. I really don't see how that could impact body chemistry. This effect is explained in Homeopathy by the hypothesis of the "Memory of Water" which, as I understand (again, correct me if I'm wrong) is not explicable by known principles of physics or chemistry. This makes me wonder: If what is claimed to be a physical effect of water is not yet explainable by physics or chemistry, how did the homeopaths learn about this effect?

As I said before, there's a lot of anecdotal evidence, but I really can't understand how the principles work. It would be okay if I could understand even a bit of how the principle works, but it's totally obscure, which is what confuses me.

[Innocent]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1638289' date='Aug 26 2008, 09:33 AM']Some just cling single mindedly to the synthesised chemicals we've developed in our modern times. Now, I'm not against our "findings", but I don't think they're THE solution.[/quote]

As you rightly state, any field must be open-minded to allow inputs from unconventional sources, such as medicine being open to herbal medicine, etc.

My confusion is this: In Allopathic medicine or even in many sorts of herbal medicine, one can understand that there's some chemical reactions involved. Thus herbal medicine does not necessarily contradict biochemisty or the Germ theory of disease and is very open to research. But with the heavy dilution of Homeopathic medicine, any possibility of chemical explanations of how it works is unimaginable. (again, if I'm wrong, please correct me, this is only my understanding of this field, and I'm no expert, not even an amateur)

The way I see it, most people (including many in my own family) who are enthusiastic or even reluctant supporters or even occasional users of homeopathy consider Homeopathy a "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box"]black box[/url]" which works, in some situations. I'm confused about the widespread lack of curiosity about what is inside the black box. Why does is bother very less people that the principles of Homeopathy are very confusing? Of course, Allopathic medicines have lots of side effects, and one must be cautious about how large Pharmaceutical companies try to lobby for their interests and all that, but at least the chemistry behind these medicines is not obscure.

Or perhaps, am I the only one confused? Are there people who have a good idea about how it works? If so I'd love to hear the explanations.