What I Think

[alimarie_11]

[quote]The original poster sounds like a good person who has been mislead. I pray that she, like us, is against marriage between family members. If she is I pray she understands that she is just as 'guilty' of the 'sin' she says we are guilty of for being against homosexual unions.[/quote]

well, thank you, ha. and...i feel like this has gotten way...kinda.. Off, what i was originally thinking, not that i can blame anyone cuz none of you know exactly what i was thinking, ha.


Incest....ha. ..i don't agree with that.
i don't understand how i am against homosexual unions? because i don't believe in two brothers being together?
well i never thought of it like that, to me incest was completely different than homosexuality.
i suppose its because when i think 'incest' i think...like rape and molestation. my misunderstanding i guess.

just two more thoughts



how people are repeatedly saying that homosexuality, whether sex or not, always has to be about lust?


is it soo hard to believe that you could actually love someone? Truely, like old married couples do, Despite what their out side is? If they're male or female, does anyone else out there, believe that you could love someone for only their mind, and personality, for [i]Who they are?[/i] and not their body?

thats what i see in any kind of relationship, straight or gay. The insides, the core of the being. not their outside parts.

and of course i don't mean the relationship between family members, like incest, because your love for you bother is completely different that your love for you husband, isn't it?


oh yes, and i'm not saying that in alllll homosexual relationships, lust isn't involved, but doesn't a Straight relationship have lust too? i belive definitlyyyyy so.



i'm not sure what else i was going to say.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636288' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:35 PM']well, thank you, ha. and...i feel like this has gotten way...kinda.. Off, what i was originally thinking, not that i can blame anyone cuz none of you know exactly what i was thinking, ha.


Incest....ha. ..i don't agree with that.
i don't understand how i am against homosexual unions? because i don't believe in two brothers being together?
well i never thought of it like that, to me incest was completely different than homosexuality.
i suppose its because when i think 'incest' i think...like rape and molestation. my misunderstanding i guess.[/quote]

Honestly say two blood brothers or sisters or father and son 'love' each other the same way you mean by 'love' between homosexuals would you support their union as well? Or be against it.

Edited August 24, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[alimarie_11]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636293' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:42 AM']Honestly say two blood brothers or sisters or father and son 'love' each other the same way you mean by 'love' between homosexuals would you support their union as well? Or be against it.[/quote]


i'm not sure how that would work, like....i guess i have always thought that you grew up with eachother, of if a father raised a son, that kinda love would not happen between them. it would be a more fatherly love, or bother-sister love.

ha..

i wouldn't support it.

but that kinda has bumbed my stance, cuz i hadn't thought about it.

but thank you..for poking my mind, and causing me to

Edited August 24, 2008 by alimarie_11

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636304' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:46 PM']i'm not sure how that would work, like....i guess i have always thought that you grew up with eachother, of if a father raised a son, that kinda love would not happen between them. it would be a more fatherly love, or bother-sister love.

ha..

i wouldn't support it.

but that kinda has bumbed my stance, cuz i hadn't thought about it.

but thank you..for poking my mind, and causing me to

[/quote]

It's a sicking thought but it does happen... there's a 'couple' in Germany who are blood brother and sister who have children together trying to get the government to make their union legal using the same reasoning that is used to argue for homosexual unions.

The same reasoning you use to be against incestuous unions is the same reasoning faithful Catholics are against homosexual unions, that is because it is well you know... not right not right at all.

And I am thankful it has at least got you thinking.

Edited August 24, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[alimarie_11]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636314' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:52 AM']It's a sicking thought but it does happen... there's a 'couple' in Germany who are blood brother and sister who have children together trying to get the government to make their union legal using the same reasoning that is used to argue for homosexual unions.

The same reasoning you use to be against incestuous unions is the same reasoning faithful Catholics are against homosexual unions, that is because it is well you know... not right not right at all.

And I am thankful it has at least got you thinking.[/quote]







hmm to me, its not as sickening, as it is sad. JUst because these people feel this way or claim to, doesn't make them evil or bad or....icky.

its sad that thier love, or what they think is thier true love, happens to be their sibling.

it makes me sad for them, that it won't work out.

i want it to work for them, but with people other than eachother.

ha

and i ..don't like admitting this i suppose, because i under stand what you say in how
catholics see homosexuality, and that isss like how i see incest. but to me, incest and homosexuality, ..is not the same.

but yes, i understand now...and i am definitely thankful

[KnightofChrist]

Do you know how you believe they are is not 'the same'? Why allow homosexual unions but not incestuous unions? I pray their is more of a reason than 'there just not the same', you should have a very good thought out and logical reason why both are not the same, or similar, when they seem to be very similar, both where consider immoral for thousands of generations, now not so much. This is a question to ask yourself, for you to think about... not so much a debate on my part...

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636314' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:52 AM']It's a sicking thought but it does happen... there's a 'couple' in Germany who are blood brother and sister who have children together[/quote]

I saw a special on TV about these two. If it's the same siblings I didn't realize they had kids already. At the time I saw the program they had just started [spoiler]sleeping together[/spoiler] and that was sort of the gist of the whole program--how they got themselves to the point where they were able to justify that. It was very, very disturbing. I forget all the details but it was something about how they had the same mother but different fathers and so they really didn't grow up together then at some point they were together in their late teens or something and that's when the deviant relationship began to form. They struck me as being extremely weird people. I mean, besides the fact that they were incestuous, they were just WEIRD people. They were almost in literal worship of each other.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[alimarie_11]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636327' date='Aug 24 2008, 01:07 AM']Do you know how you believe they are is not 'the same'? Why allow homosexual unions but not incestuous unions? I pray their is more of a reason than 'there just not the same', you should have a very good thought out and logical reason why both are not the same, or similar, when they seem to be very similar, both where consider immoral for thousands of generations, now not so much. This is a question to ask yourself, for you to think about... not so much a debate on my part...[/quote]


I"m not looking for debate, i just like to talk, and say what i think
(i guess that is debate? ha sorry)

People would marry (in what ever centuary it was) their family member to keep a royal blood line, so actually it hasn't been considered immoral for so long.

And i Definitely Don't see how they are so similar. besides being considered 'imoral'

a bother and a sister is also incest, and thats male and female . Straight. So who's to say Thats so different from incest then? hm?









i'm not sure...exactly..like where either of us is going with this.
ha



just to take a sad note. no one has mentioned my heartfelt spout about loving someone for purely who they are inside.

or did you touch on that with the incest?




i'd like to hear more opinions too i guess

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636314' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:52 AM']using the same reasoning that is used to argue for homosexual unions.[/quote]

And BTW, Muslims in Europe are pulling this same card to try and get the governments to allow them to have multiple wives, in accordance with the Koran. They are literally arguing that "you let the gays do it", meaning allow people in non-traditional relationships to enter into legal marriages.

Pandora's box.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636332' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:15 AM']I"m not looking for debate, i just like to talk, and say what i think
(i guess that is debate? ha sorry)

People would marry (in what ever centuary it was) their family member to keep a royal blood line, so actually it hasn't been considered immoral for so long.[/quote]

Yes they married within the bloodlines but the only ones I remember marrying brother and sister where the Egyptians, and they paid for it by having mentality handicap children. The European Kings and Queens would not marry so close in the family but cousins at least and it was actually so taboo that if a king, queen, prince, or princess was accused of having realitions with a family member such as a brother they would be put to death.

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636332' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:15 AM']And i Definitely Don't see how they are so similar. besides being considered 'imoral'

a bother and a sister is also incest, and thats male and female . Straight. So who's to say Thats so different from incest then? hm?[/quote]

The immorality of both is a very big part of the similarity. Incest is any sexual relationship between close family members.

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636332' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:15 AM']i'm not sure...exactly..like where either of us is going with this.
ha[/quote]

The point is if we can not be against homosexuality because we can not deny people who love each other the 'right' to be together how then can we be against [b]any[/b] other union be it incest, or between man and beast if all you need is love?


[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636332' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:15 AM']just to take a sad note. no one has mentioned my heartfelt spout about loving someone for purely who they are inside.

or did you touch on that with the incest?


i'd like to hear more opinions too i guess [/quote]

I'm sorry I'm going to let someone else focus on your other questions. And yes, I did touch on it this same love you speak of incestuous unions claim to have the same love, be they brother and brother, or all the other sad ways a unions like that happen.

[alimarie_11]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1636356' date='Aug 24 2008, 01:34 AM']The immorality of both is a very big part of the similarity. Incest is any sexual relationship between close family members.



The point is if we can not be against homosexuality because we can not deny people who love each other the 'right' to be together how then can we be against [b]any[/b] other union be it incest, or between man and beast if all you need is love?[/quote]


I guessi just...can't get it across what i'm trying to say. and i think you may feel the same, but i do understand what you say...i just don't..agree.


but i sincerely thank you for all the attention you've paid to this, me and my words. thank you so much



i am curious though..... 'all you need is love'
if love isn't all you need...what else?

i understand when you said man a beast and bla...that's not right. but.in other cases, homosexuality? if love isn't enough, then what else is?

i think i'm going to turn in for tonight

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636365' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:42 AM']I guessi just...can't get it across what i'm trying to say. and i think you may feel the same, but i do understand what you say...i just don't..agree.


but i sincerely thank you for all the attention you've paid to this, me and my words. thank you so much
[/quote]

No problem, I truly care and will pray for you sister. Again for you own self you should have a well reason thought out logical reason why the two are not the same, and how you can support one but not all the other unions that are consider immoral if all you need is the love bewteen the two or 200 in the union.

[quote name='alimarie_11' post='1636365' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:42 AM']i am curious though..... 'all you need is love'
if love isn't all you need...what else?

i understand when you said man a beast and bla...that's not right. but.in other cases, homosexuality? if love isn't enough, then what else is?

i think i'm going to turn in for tonight [/quote]

My brain has turned to mud, its late, so I may have to wait till tomorrow to give you a better answer. But the love you describe can only exist between a man and a woman. Its a love that comes together to procreate morally. Other unions simply can not achieve that, homosexuals can not even procreate ever. Had early man been homosexual it is likely that perhaps humans would not now exist.

Ehh.. the above makes a good point and kinda answers your question, but again... mind is mud... getting off here too... good night prayers for you!

Good night!

[pan!c139]

[quote name='pan!c139' post='1635592' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:41 AM']Homosexuality is condemned by the Bible in the book of Leviticus, I believe. Yes, God commands us to love, but the love made for man and woman (see Genesis - "man and woman he created them") is reserved solely for man and woman. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. [/quote]

Just to repeat what I said earlier. A comment to your comments, alimarie_11.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1635664' date='Aug 23 2008, 02:16 PM']When the original poster returns I would very much like a response to [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=84008&view=findpost&p=1635546"]post 8 of this thread[/url].[/quote]

"If all you need is 'love', there are many other perverse relationships that would say they 'love' each other. Honestly if it's ok to allow men to marry men based on love, why not also a brother to his sister, or a mother to her son, or a father and his daughter, or even a father and his son? All consenting adults that 'love' each other. Why not them too? "

indeed, why not?

I'm not approving on incest, however as Dr. Kreeft at BC said, "An act is innocent untill proven guilty"

Do you have any rational basis for your sexual ethics, or does it all rest on CHurch teaching?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1636333' date='Aug 24 2008, 12:15 AM']And BTW, Muslims in Europe are pulling this same card to try and get the governments to allow them to have multiple wives, in accordance with the Koran. They are literally arguing that "you let the gays do it", meaning allow people in non-traditional relationships to enter into legal marriages.

Pandora's box.[/quote]

Well we all know how much the Bible condemns having multiple wives.

O.o

it's none of anyone's buisness in my oppinion.