What I Think

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1635569' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:21 PM']And it was not sex, if that's all that happened, which I doubt. It was still sexual perversion and sexual gratification, a sin of lust, which does not discount the wickedness of the sin he committed.[/quote]

I understand where you're coming from. I don't exactly agree with it, because I do consider both acts sex, even though you and others don't. But who cares. Does agreeing really matter on these matters. We can both consider it sinful and wrong!

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1635571' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:22 PM']yeah she does sound like me in that she wants ideas.[/quote]

No, it's the way she writes. And the fact that she came in on her first post with a topic and an opinion designed to stir people up. Well, regardless, it's a good topic.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1635566' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:18 PM']By your definition, Bill Clinton would have been right when he said when he received oral satisifaction of Monica Lewinski, it wasn't sex.[/quote]

No, when he looked into the camera and shook his finger at the American people, he said "I did not have sexual RELATIONS with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" he was lying. He DID have sexual relations. But it's true, he didn't have sex. There are even people who argue that oral sex is SEX. I vehemently disagree with this.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1635563' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:11 PM']It is a sin of lust, because it is a perversion of sexual activity. Because one of the reasons God created sex was to allow children to be born. Homosexual sex, and it is sex, will never create children.[/quote]

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Thanks for playing, though.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1635579' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:30 PM']Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Thanks for playing, though.[/quote]
Well, it's not [i]completely[/i] wrong. One of the reasons is procreation.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1635579' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:30 PM']Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Thanks for playing, though.[/quote]

Please read [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=84008&view=findpost&p=1635574"]This post[/url]. We are allowed to disagree with each other, and not be immature about it.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1635580' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:31 PM']Well, it's not [i]completely[/i] wrong. One of the reasons is procreation.[/quote]

Right, but the fact that homosexuals can't procreate is not the reason (or even one of the reasons) that homsexual acts are intrinsically evil and therefore wrong.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1635585' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:34 PM']Right, but the fact that homosexuals can't procreate is not the reason (or even one of the reasons) that homsexual acts are intrinsically evil and therefore wrong.[/quote]

Wow, are you homophobic?

I don't agree with the homosexual act, because it is perverse and evil because it is not what God created sexuality for, but I can love a homosexual with brotherly love and kindness.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1635584' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:33 PM']Please read [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=84008&view=findpost&p=1635574"]This post[/url]. We are allowed to disagree with each other, and not be immature about it.[/quote]

It wasn't immature and you were wrong. Homosexual acts aren't just wrong becasue they don't beget children. Homosexual acts do not constitute sex as it is traditionally defined based on nature. And homsexuality is not about "lust". It's about deviant sexual acts.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1635588' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:36 PM']It wasn't immature and you were wrong. Homosexual acts aren't just wrong becasue they don't beget children. Homosexual acts do not constitute sex as it is traditionally defined based on nature. And homsexuality is not about "lust". It's about deviant sexual acts.[/quote]

According to Socratese, any perversion (which means to divate from the purpose of) sexual act is an act of lust.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1635587' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:35 PM']Wow, are you homophobic?

I don't agree with the homosexual act, because it is perverse and evil because it is not what God created sexuality for, but I can love a homosexual with brotherly love and kindness.[/quote]

Don't you dare.

No one said anything about homosexuals. My comment was about homsexual acts. Don't sit there and read a plain statement and reply with a comment that is completely unrelated to the statement. You do that with people constantly. Don't try to run that game on me.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1635589' date='Aug 23 2008, 01:38 PM']According to Socratese, any perversion (which means to divate from the purpose of) sexual act is an act of lust.[/quote]


It may start with lust but lust can be over-come with self-control. It's not about lust. It's about freely entering into deviant and illicit behavior.

[pan!c139]

Homosexuality is condemned by the Bible in the book of Leviticus, I believe. Yes, God commands us to love, but the love made for man and woman (see Genesis - "man and woman he created them") is reserved solely for man and woman. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1635591' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:39 PM']It may start with lust but lust can be over-come with self-control. It's not about lust. It's about freely entering into deviant and illicit behavior.[/quote]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=83905&view=findpost&p=1634118"]A link to Socs statement[/url]

[quote]Obviously, lust is involved in some way--very perverted lust, but lust nonetheless--otherwise there would be no need to rape at all. Rape is lust driven by violence.
There are lots of non-sexual ways to exercise violence or aggression against another person - beating someone almost to death, burning their house down, etc.
[b]Lust is traditionally understood by the Church as covering any kind of sexual sin or perversion[/b] - not just the normal "woah - check out that hot babe!"sense of the word.
Rape is regarded as both a sin of lust and of violence.[/quote]

[quote]Main Entry:
1per·vert Listen to the pronunciation of 1pervert
Pronunciation:
\pər-ˈvərt\
Function:
transitive verb
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French purvertir, pervertir, from Latin pervertere to overturn, corrupt, pervert, from per- thoroughly + vertere to turn — more at per-, worth
Date:
14th century

1 a: to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right : corrupt b: [b]to cause to turn aside or away from what is generally done or accepted [/b]:
misdirect2 a: [b]to divert to a wrong end or purpose [/b]: misuse b: [b]to twist the meaning or sense of : misinterpret[/b][/quote]

So if the definition of pervert is to twist the meaning or something, to divert to a wrong end or purpose or to cause to turn aside or away from what is generally done or accepted, how is what homosexuals not doing something that is perverted - because that is the meaning. And if you take that meaning and apply it to what your beliefs are, it is lust because they are diverting the purpose of the sexual act to something that is not generally done or accepted?

So, please don't come at me with your opinions, show good hard facts like I just did, like defining what you are talking about and then we can talk.

I've given an argument of why I believe I am right, give me the argument of why you think you are right!

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='pan!c139' post='1635592' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:41 PM']Homosexuality is condemned by the Bible in the book of Leviticus, I believe. Yes, God commands us to love, but the love made for man and woman (see Genesis - "man and woman he created them") is reserved solely for man and woman. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. [/quote]

LOL! I love that one.