Paladin D Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Was it possible for Judas to not betray Jesus? If he didn't, I'm assuming somebody else would've eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Ineed he could have "not" betrayed Christ. It was his free will to do so. But God knew even before what his free will choice would be. The same thing with Mary's "yes". She freely chose to say "yes". And I don't think that God had a plan B "if he didn't". God knew he would. But this still doesn't mean it wasn't a choice. Just that God knew the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Jake beat me to it, and I was going to say the same thing. I guess that just means great minds think alike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Jake Huether' date='Mar 4 2004, 04:28 PM'] Ineed he could have "not" betrayed Christ. It was his free will to do so. But God knew even before what his free will choice would be. The same thing with Mary's "yes". She freely chose to say "yes". And I don't think that God had a plan B "if he didn't". God knew he would. But this still doesn't mean it wasn't a choice. Just that God knew the choice. [/quote] It's kind of amazing though, so he knows who is going to hell and who is going to heaven? There is no hope for the person to change his destiny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Mar 4 2004, 04:49 PM'] It's kind of amazing though, so he knows who is going to hell and who is going to heaven? There is no hope for the person to change his destiny? [/quote] Their destiny is based on the choices God knows each of them will make. If He knows they'll die estranged from Him, then they're destined for hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Dave' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:25 PM'] Their destiny is based on the choices God knows each of them will make. If He knows they'll die estranged from Him, then they're destined for hell. [/quote] But I thought everyone is destined for heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Paladin D' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:32 PM'] But I thought everyone is destined for heaven? [/quote] Well, we're IDEALLY destined for heaven in that that's what God would like for all of us. But REALISTICALLY we may not be, as we have free will, and we can and do choose to turn away from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Jake Huether' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:28 PM'] Ineed he could have "not" betrayed Christ. It was his free will to do so. But God knew even before what his free will choice would be. The same thing with Mary's "yes". She freely chose to say "yes". And I don't think that God had a plan B "if he didn't". God knew he would. But this still doesn't mean it wasn't a choice. Just that God knew the choice. [/quote] This was a great explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Dave' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:35 PM'] Well, we're IDEALLY destined for heaven in that that's what God would like for all of us. But REALISTICALLY we may not be, as we have free will, and we can and do choose to turn away from God. [/quote] Ah ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 We have the choice to turn to God and ask him to help every day of our life, or we have the choice to turn our back on God, so depending on which way they turn, it was truly up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Fro Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Doesn't the Bible say that the devil entered into Judas or something? John 13:27 says that when Jesus gave him the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 [quote name='Dusty Fro' date='Mar 4 2004, 09:33 PM'] Doesn't the Bible say that the devil entered into Judas or something? John 13:27 says that when Jesus gave him the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. [/quote] Yep. But this doesn't really mean that Judas didn't have free will. I think it mainly indicates that he was Satan's agent in some sense. Devils come into people all the time when they give themselves over to sin and betray God. By turning away from God we open ourselves up to the devil and his guys. You might say that serious sin makes us co-workers with the devil similar to how we are supposed to be co-workers with God and co-heirs with Jesus Christ in the life of the Holy Spirit. I kind of see the significance of the dipping of the bread as related with his betraying Christ with a kiss. The dipping of the bread was symbolic of their unity and fellowship. He was expressing an act which symbolized his intimacy with Jesus and yet in his heart he was prepared to sell Him for some silver. It's kind of like the definitive point where Judas has already betrayed Jesus in his heart and so the devil enters into him. But these are just my ideas and they make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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