Lil Red Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 +J.M.J.+ [url="http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=13027&size=A"]Source[/url] More than a thousand underground Catholics defied police controls to meet in a church in Wuqiu (Hebei) to celebrate mass on the feast day of the Assumption of Mary with their bishop, Julius Jia Zhiguo, who has been under house arrest and police surveillance around the clock. Sources told AsiaNews however that the bishop is isolated and that priests and seminarians cannot see him in person. Monsignor Jia is bishop of the underground diocese of Zhengding (Hebei), which has more than 110,000 Catholics with 80 priests and more than 90 nuns. For the Olympics public security officers warned Catholics in the diocese not to celebrate the feast in Wuqiu cathedral. Prelates and priests were placed instead under house arrest. Mgr Jia Zhiguo himself has been under police surveillance around the clock since April. The police even build a small house in front of the bishop’s residence just to monitor him. The solemnity of the Assumption is a major Catholic celebration in China. At least a thousand faithful peacefully flocked to the church in Wuqiu in defiance of police order. The bishop’s residence is located just beside the place of worship. To avoid conflict and other problems, the public security officers monitoring the cathedral allowed the large crowd to go in. The officers did not follow them into the church but maintained order in the courtyard. The bishop was thus able to celebrate mass with the faithful. Sources in Zhengding told AsiaNews that the bishop remains in isolation and cannot see or meet his seminarians or priests. Pastoral activities are in the hands of priests who were warned however to keep a low profile when they held meetings. At least six priests have been forced by the security forces to take “involuntary holidays” during the Olympic period. A deacon was expected to be ordained but will likely have to wait until October after the Olympics and the Paralympics. Monsignor Jia, 73, spent 15 years in prison (1963-1978). Since 1989 he has been closely monitored by police, and has been arrested and released 11 times. In the past the Vatican has often pleaded his cases to Chinese authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 How incredible. I can tell you from good sources that the Church in China is very, very strong and very, very faithful. They are in their daily lives and sacrifices what we here in the West yearn to be. Even if you just look at the numbers of priests and religious they have--it's absolutely miraculous. And they are FAITHFUL. They love the Holy Father and they go to extraordinary lengths to preserve the One Truth Faith at all costs. And the best part of all is that there are MILLIONS of them. I do mean, millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 What a powerful testimony. Their reward in Heaven will be great, to be sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Wow. If only I could put up with the puny hardships in my life like our brothers in China do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1634418' date='Aug 22 2008, 04:57 AM']Wow. If only I could put up with the puny hardships in my life like our brothers in China do.[/quote] Our brothers and our sisters in China, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 There are female underground Catholics in China as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Er, I meant brothers in the sense of brethren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1635394' date='Aug 23 2008, 04:47 AM']Er, I meant brothers in the sense of brethren.[/quote] Right. But in the english language those are two different words. Brothers means brothers. It doesn't mean "brothers and sisters". It is a masculine word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 [quote name='DemonSlayer' post='1635372' date='Aug 23 2008, 03:00 AM']There are female underground Catholics in China as well? [/quote] Well, you wouldn't know it, to hear someone refer to them as "brothers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamin Catholic Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1634418' date='Aug 22 2008, 04:57 AM']Wow. If only I could put up with the puny hardships in my life like our brothers in China do.[/quote] it makes me feel like cra[i]p[/i] when I see /hear about what others are putting up with to practice their faith, when I have been known to complain about the small things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1635464' date='Aug 23 2008, 06:32 PM']Right. But in the english language those are two different words. Brothers means brothers. It doesn't mean "brothers and sisters". It is a masculine word.[/quote] Thanks for your notes on the English language I'm deeply old-fashioned and use a word like "brothers" to mean the same as "bretheren" (unless of course I mean male siblings). Not only that but I also use male pronouns as generic, use Miss as a title before my surname, and should I get married will steadfastly refuse to keep my maiden name or go for any of this silly double-barrelled business. Can we get back to the topic now and leave the prescriptivist bashing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1635506' date='Aug 23 2008, 11:12 AM']Thanks for your notes on the English language I'm deeply old-fashioned and use a word like "brothers" to mean the same as "bretheren" (unless of course I mean male siblings). Not only that but I also use male pronouns as generic, use Miss as a title before my surname, and should I get married will steadfastly refuse to keep my maiden name or go for any of this silly double-barrelled business. Can we get back to the topic now and leave the prescriptivist bashing?[/quote] First of all, no one bashed you. Don't even go there. Secondly, how about taking correction with humility? Yes, even I have to do sometimes. Accept that you were wrong. This is not a question of you being traditional. It's an issue of you using a word that is blatantly masculine and yet you applied it to women. There is no issue here other than that. You should not use the word "brothers" to refer to your Christian brothers and sisters (or brethren, as you prefer) or to any females, period. Brothers is a strictly masculine word and it always, always, always has been in the English language. There has never, ever been a time when this word was applied to females. And you know this. But for some reason you just won't accept that you made a mistake. Either it's because you simply don't like being corrected or you don't like being corrected by me. Whatever the case, you're wrong. Sorry about that. Edited August 23, 2008 by Madame Vengier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Oh, brother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 You guys can get angry and annoyed all you want, but the word brothers does not refer to women, period. And I for one, as a Christian WOMAN, do not like women being referred to as "brothers" since this is blatantly incorrect and has never been used in the English language. I don't care if it is done by a tradtional female Catholic. It's incorrect. I'm not wrong here, so if you guys choose to keep making an issue out of it like I've done something horrible and unreasonable for correcting this issue, then that's on you, not on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 MV and I speak different varieties of English and both are equally valid; in her idiolect the word "brother(s)" has an exclusively masculine meaning; in mine it doesn't. That's what it all boils down to. Let's get back to the topic and stop the [s]bash[/s]prescriptivism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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