Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 WASHINGTON — As lawyers and court watchers have long suspected, the Supreme Court was ready to effectively overturn the landmark Roe v. Wade (search) ruling legalizing abortion in 1992, but Justice Anthony M. Kennedy got cold feet, and the vote went the other way. Internal notes in the papers of late Justice Harry A. Blackmun (search) reveal the secretive dealings that led to the court's ruling in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (search) that year. Blackmun's extensive records from 24 years on the court were opened Thursday. Details of the archives were first reported by National Public Radio, which got advance access. Blackmun's notes show that Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist led a five-justice majority to overrule Roe. Four other justices voting with Rehnquist were Byron White, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Kennedy. Rehnquist himself was to write the majority opinion. Unbeknownst to him, Kennedy was having second thoughts, and agreed with Justices Sandra Day O'Connor and David Souter, to a compromise position. The Casey ruling carved out a middle ground that upheld a woman's right to abortion largely free from state regulation. The case was argued in April and Rehnquist was at work on his majority ruling, when Kennedy sent a note to Blackmun, NPR reported. "I need to see you as soon as you have a few moments. I want to tell you about a new development in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. It should come as welcome news." Blackmun picked up a pink memo pad and scribbled, "Roe Sound," The New York Times reported Thursday. Blackmun had written the Roe ruling 18 years before, and had guarded it from previous attack from conservative justices. Blackmun's paper legacy, filling more than 1,500 boxes, will be unsealed Thursday on the fifth anniversary of his death. It's been more than a decade since intimate details of the court's inner workings were revealed in Justice Thurgood Marshall's papers, which elicited bitter criticism within the court because the papers include secret memos and unpublished draft opinions in controversial cases. Most current justices are expected to ensure their files and any embarrassing secrets they might hold will be protected long after their deaths. Blackmun, like Marshall, served 24 years on the court and into his 80s, retiring in 1994. He accumulated far more correspondence than Marshall. The appointee of President Nixon "took copious notes and never threw away any of his papers," Washington lawyer David Frederick said. His authorship of Roe v. Wade brought him more than 60,000 angry letters and repeated threats on his life. Blackmun, who died at age 90, served with eight of the current nine justices. Stephen Breyer was chosen as his successor in 1994. Blackmun also donated his papers to the Library of Congress, more than 530,000 items, with a release date five years after his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I heard on NPR like 2 weeks ago the an appeals court was going to rule on a case that may over turn [i]Roe v Wade[/i]. And it on the said to overturn the ruling was Jane Roe, I can't rember her real name. Has anyone else heard about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 (edited) i just heard about the 1992 thing on the news, like, five minutes ago. it was sooo close!!!! Keep praying for the conversion of the abortionists and their staff. Edited March 4, 2004 by Rebirth flame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Maybe we will come closer next time. Which better be soon. My only fear with overturing [i]Roe v. Wade[/i] is the return to illegal abortion (like the type done with coat hangers and things) where the baby is killed and the mother runs a high risk of death as well. I think we need to stop abortion but we also need to stop these "unwanted*" pregnancies. People just need to stop having sex before they are ready for children! Than there would be no need for abortion. Something is just really wrong in a counrty that needs over 4,100 abortions a DAY to work. * Unwanted, lol. That is like pointing a gun at some one and shooting it then telling the cops, I meant to shoot the gun while aiming at him, BUT I didn't mean to hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 4 2004, 03:26 PM'] I heard on NPR like 2 weeks ago the an appeals court was going to rule on a case that may over turn [i]Roe v Wade[/i]. And it on the said to overturn the ruling was Jane Roe, I can't rember her real name. Has anyone else heard about that? [/quote] Yeah, i kinda remember that. It was some court in New Orleans that they were doing that at. Both "Jane Roe" in Roe vs. Wade and "Jane Doe" in a similar case have since changed their ways and become outspoken defenders of the right to Life. But I don't know any more about the appeals court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 4 2004, 04:47 PM'] My only fear with overturing [i]Roe v. Wade[/i] is the return to illegal abortion (like the type done with coat hangers and things) where the baby is killed and the mother runs a high risk of death as well. [/quote] Still, it's not a reason to [i]not [/i] overturn Roe v. Wade. [quote]People just need to stop having sex before they are ready for children! Than there would be no need for abortion.[/quote] Yeah, we gotta start by changing people's hearts -- then the legislation will come much faster. Keep up the prayers! It's not a losing battle. The culture of death can never win because God will never allow evil to conquer. And so much good has happened for the cause of life in the past few years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:47 PM'] Maybe we will come closer next time. Which better be soon. My only fear with overturing [i]Roe v. Wade[/i] is the return to illegal abortion (like the type done with coat hangers and things) where the baby is killed and the mother runs a high risk of death as well. [/quote] i agree that we should do everything possible to stop abortion altogether, but before abortion was legal, there weren't too many people performing illegal abortions. I forget the actual statistic, but it was much much lower than the actual abortion rate as of now. it would be fantastic if people would give up abortions altogether, but first things first, i personally would like to seeRoe v. Wade overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FX2 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 i heard about the appeals court thing....Its that if someone got a ruling for them and they want to change it, the person who won can take it to the court of appeals and try to get it changed. lets keep on praying that they do get it changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Don't take me wrong, I would LOVE for roe v. Wade to be overturned, I just think when we do we need to install some better support networks. There are some that are really good but no where near enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 [quote name='Iacobus' date='Mar 4 2004, 07:43 PM'] Don't take me wrong, I would LOVE for roe v. Wade to be overturned, I just think when we do we need to install some better support networks. There are some that are really good but no where near enough. [/quote] i agree. there aren't too many places out there that a pregnant mother can go to for some form of councelling or advice if she is even remotely concidering abortion. here in Indiana (at least in St. Joe county), we have these places (about 5 of them) called "women's care centers" where pregnant mothers can go to get advice/support/councelling. they do everything they can to try and get the mother to have the child. One thing that's really cool is that one of these places is right next door to the local abortion clinic, so sometimes people go into the women's care center on accident, and end up leaving wanting to do everything they can for their Child, except get an abortion. it's pretty cool. but i do agree we need more places like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 You wanna know what's [i]really[/i] sad? We had a pro-life conference in seminary today and there are seminarians from certain dioceses which will not be named (*cough Oklahoma City *cough cough) who don't think abortion should be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 [quote name='Raphael' date='Mar 4 2004, 09:46 PM'] You wanna know what's [i]really[/i] sad? We had a pro-life conference in seminary today and there are seminarians from certain dioceses which will not be named (*cough Oklahoma City *cough cough) who don't think abortion should be illegal. [/quote] personally, i think it [i]should[/i] be illegal (as most here would agree) because we've proven, as a society, that we have no respect for life whatsoever. if we did, then there'd be no murder, there'd even be no need for this thread!!! but there is, because some people have zero reguard for the sanctity of Human Life and there has to be something, unfortunately, to keep them in line. yeah, hey i got a question for some of you guys... what is a really good argument against someone who is prolife, but feels there is no need to keep trying, seeing as nothing has been done this far? Scenario: i'm very prolife. the person i'm talking to is too. unfortunately, the person i'm talking to thinks that its too little, too late to do anything about the abortion issue. what could i say to that person to convince them that there is still a need for regular people like ourselves to stand up against abortion??? they think (and this is correct) that people should have taken a stand back when this was first an issue, but never did. they now feel that all the effort in the world from anyone save our corrupt politicians is futile. after having said all that..... does anyone have any advice??? it's greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 [quote name='Rebirth flame' date='Mar 4 2004, 08:43 PM'] i agree. there aren't too many places out there that a pregnant mother can go to for some form of councelling or advice if she is even remotely concidering abortion. here in Indiana (at least in St. Joe county), we have these places (about 5 of them) called "women's care centers" where pregnant mothers can go to get advice/support/councelling. they do everything they can to try and get the mother to have the child. One thing that's really cool is that one of these places is right next door to the local abortion clinic, so sometimes people go into the women's care center on accident, and end up leaving wanting to do everything they can for their Child, except get an abortion. it's pretty cool. but i do agree we need more places like that. [/quote] you're right, we need more centers for pregnant women. but it leads me to wonder, what about all the men? that baby is just as much theirs as the mother's. where are the support groups for the fathers -- especially for those who oppose the abortion of their child? i think that we have to remind ourselves that this is not merely a women's issue. it's an issue for all mankind. it's not just about 1 or 2 people, it's really about 3, and for that matter, the entire world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 [quote name='Rebirth flame' date='Mar 4 2004, 09:07 PM'] yeah, hey i got a question for some of you guys... what is a really good argument against someone who is prolife, but feels there is no need to keep trying, seeing as nothing has been done this far? Scenario: i'm very prolife. the person i'm talking to is too. unfortunately, the person i'm talking to thinks that its too little, too late to do anything about the abortion issue. what could i say to that person to convince them that there is still a need for regular people like ourselves to stand up against abortion??? they think (and this is correct) that people should have taken a stand back when this was first an issue, but never did. they now feel that all the effort in the world from anyone save our corrupt politicians is futile. after having said all that..... does anyone have any advice??? it's greatly appreciated. [/quote] First of all, a great deal has been done. As i mentioned above, look at the P-BA ban. Secondly, ordinary people like us can do a great deal by: a. voting for pro-life candidates b. supporting pro-life causes c. helping others to see the truth about human dignity and human life Also, one final thought, slavery was legal and that all seemed like a hopeless situation. But that was changed, too. Let's not forget what history can teach us. Hope that helps. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 All we need in another Dred Scott ruling. So far nothing has REALLY unified the pro-life movement. Same thing with the anti-slavary movement, until the Dred Scott ruling. Look at a voting map for 1856 and 1860 and you will see the change. Right now there isn't enough of an unifing force to pass a law. Maybe the gov't should spend less on weapons and put more money into women's care centres. Fix the problems here before invading other nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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