Christian Persecution In The United States?

[princessgianna]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1641551' date='Aug 29 2008, 12:08 PM']so it has been since the founding of this country makes me sad but I got the Truth what is better than that???[/quote]

[princessgianna]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1641403' date='Aug 29 2008, 10:28 AM']Catholics are perecuted because this nation is protestant. The Irish and other groups were discriminated against due to this fact and it is a shame.[/quote]

but i thought that Protestants are strong believers in "you got the right to interpret scripture
as you feel as needed" (Works of Luther)!! Are the Catholics a doubled standard ??????????

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1641507' date='Aug 29 2008, 12:40 PM']And yet here in Canada, and no where more so than in 'catholic Quebec', anyone who professes deep Catholic beliefs is marginalized and ridiculed.[/quote]

Most of my relatives are Catholic. I don't ridicule them. . .

I think you are all way blowing it out of proportion here!

[princessgianna]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1641644' date='Aug 29 2008, 02:13 PM']Most of my relatives are Catholic. I don't ridicule them. . .

I think you are all way blowing it out of proportion here![/quote]

I have family members that do ridicule my family cause we are Catholic and act like it!
I had a uncle who whenever we saw him pointed out to us the priest sex scandals and
comment on how we can't possibly be the True Church. Needless to say he is now in
jail because of sex abusing my cousin and to a lower but still damaging degree myself!
Now we are to feel sorry for him cause he is in jail! Now if that does not sound like a doubled
standard I don't know what is.

no one is pointing fingers at you! It is just i (along with others) see
a trend with us and non catholics! Pax~!

[Justin86]

[quote name='MilesJesu' post='1640973' date='Aug 29 2008, 10:58 AM']I don't think the persecution comes in an organized form, directly from the government like you find in some places like China or the Middle East. The persecution stems from various groups and is not specifically physical coercive, but rather more subtle.
Take for instance the "separation of Church and State crowd" trying to remove the symbol of the cross from the city seal of Las Cruces, NM. The name of the city means "the crosses" in Spanish and this symbol is what naturally would be expected on the seal. However, there are groups that are attempting to use the courts to advance their agenda against Christianity and argue that having the crosses on the seal is an act that "establishes" Christianity as the national religon. This tendency is also evidenced by nativity displays being banned along with strong opposition against public scholarships (funding) being used at a christian school.
As for the persecution singled out for Catholics, I think that comes with the nature of who we are. If the Church is the Body of Christ, then as the Body of Christ, we should expect to be persecuted just as Christ was. As long as the Church stands as a beacon revealing the Light of Christ, the Church will be hated and villified. Recall Jn 3:19-20: "19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed."[/quote]


[quote]As for the Whore of Babylon thing, that comes pirmarily from the book of Revelation, Chapter 17. Those people are taught from an early age that as part of the "end times" the Catholic Church is the "Whore of Babylon" found in Revelation and that the Pope is the anti-Christ.[/quote]
Also true, however this type of discrimination is becoming by far less common. It mostly has to do with the death of Calvinism in my view. Almost every Calvinist I've met has said they think Catholics go to Hell, and even the one Calvinist I met who didn't agreed that the vast majority do think that. It does seem to be mostly that small group, whose numbers get smaller every day, that hold this opinion.

[MissyP89]

It doesn't really come from the government. It comes from normal people that we interact with in our day-to-day lives. I've been called a ton of names, idolater and Virgin Mary among them, been ridiculed for "worshiping a cracker", and criticized for causing division by holding the "wrong" beliefs and breaking the mold of secularism.

Eh. Do I care? Sometimes. But Christ Himself told us this would come.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1641644' date='Aug 29 2008, 01:13 PM']Most of my relatives are Catholic. I don't ridicule them. . .

I think you are all way blowing it out of proportion here![/quote]
I've been in on-campus 'Christian' groups where the typical anti-Catholic rhetoric was spewed at meetings. People have come to my door and 'informed' me I'm going to hell for being a Catholic. I'm ridiculed even in my own home,by my own parents, on a regular basis for holding and professing the Catholic faith. So no, [i]I[/i] don't think we're blowing it out of proportion.
No one said every single non-Catholic ridicules/demeans Catholics. But whether you agree with the fact that Catholics are still persecuted or not, does not change the actuality that we face.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1641716' date='Aug 29 2008, 01:53 PM']I've been in on-campus 'Christian' groups where the typical anti-Catholic rhetoric was spewed at meetings. People have come to my door and 'informed' me I'm going to hell for being a Catholic. I'm ridiculed even in my own home,by my own parents, on a regular basis for holding and professing the Catholic faith. So no, [i]I[/i] don't think we're blowing it out of proportion.
No one said every single non-Catholic ridicules/demeans Catholics. But whether you agree with the fact that Catholics are still persecuted or not, does not change the actuality that we face.[/quote]

Here's the thing Airways,

I agree with lots of those sediments with them. Now, before this truly erupts into something it isn't - more persecution, think about some people's behaviour here.

Some people say they don't want to be considered one of those right winged Christians because they believe in 6-day creationism. Isn't that the same kind of venom and hatred as you feel at those meetings? What makes the person I read saying that, Anti-Protestant to the extreme, any better than those who say praying to Mary is idolatry?

So, we can see the issue. One side ridicules and belittles the other side, who in turn does the same for other things, and both sides are filled with violence and anger over what they perceive as attacks on their beliefs.

So, how are you going to change that? Are you willing to take a 6-day creationist seriously, or someone who doesn't follow the pope? Or are you going to attack them continually, making them ask if you are truly the sons God talked about, who would will bring peace. . .

Maybe, one of you should say, you know, I am truly sorry for belittling your beliefs, even though I don't share them, in the 6-day creationism, and that you don't follow the Pope. It was wrong of me to be so harsh when you didn't agree with what my faith has taught me. Maybe, if you did that. . . They would forgive and apologize as well!

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1641783' date='Aug 29 2008, 03:40 PM']So, how are you going to change that? Are you willing to take a 6-day creationist seriously, or someone who doesn't follow the pope? Or are you going to attack them continually, making them ask if you are truly the sons God talked about, who would will bring peace. . .

Maybe, one of you should say, you know, I am truly sorry for belittling your beliefs, even though I don't share them, in the 6-day creationism, and that you don't follow the Pope. It was wrong of me to be so harsh when you didn't agree with what my faith has taught me. Maybe, if you did that. . . They would forgive and apologize as well![/quote]
I'm getting tired of all the assumption that's been occurring on this forum recently.
When have I ever belittled another's beliefs on this site? Mind you, disagreement is not synonymous with belittlement. Please, point out one instance to me where I have.
I strive, [b]strive[/b] to always be tolerant and level-headed when discussing theology with people of opposing views. I've never told another they were going to hell - that's between you and your maker. Likewise, it's between me and mine. I've never told anyone that their beliefs are silly or anything along those lines.
So to answer your question, I do take the sincere beliefs of protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and so forth seriously. Does this mean I have to conform to their views? No.

[jeffpugh]

Amen, Mitch! I hear ya.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1641822' date='Aug 29 2008, 04:30 PM']Amen, Mitch![/quote]
Gold star for you.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1641820' date='Aug 29 2008, 04:26 PM']I'm getting tired of all the assumption that's been occurring on this forum recently.
When have I ever belittled another's beliefs on this site? Mind you, disagreement is not synonymous with belittlement. Please, point out one instance to me where I have.
I strive, [b]strive[/b] to always be tolerant and level-headed when discussing theology with people of opposing views. I've never told another they were going to hell - that's between you and your maker. Likewise, it's between me and mine. I've never told anyone that their beliefs are silly or anything along those lines.
So to answer your question, I do take the sincere beliefs of protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and so forth seriously. Does this mean I have to conform to their views? No.[/quote]

You haven't personally, but I have read it on these boards by others, who are young and zealous.

But this is the level of interactions on this board.

And, that is why I wouldn't say anything about your faith. You have a peaceful heart that wants to build bridges. However, some do not. It is unfortunate, but some do not want the peace we would desire.

It's the nature of the human race. They want to create divisions and each side attacks the other, because of a cycle of violence. Each wants to prove they are right and the other is wrong!

Edited August 29, 2008 by MakeYouThink

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1641832' date='Aug 29 2008, 04:44 PM']You haven't personally, but I have read it on these boards by others, who are young and zealous.[/quote]
I could agree with that.
[quote]But this is the level of interactions on this board.[/quote]
Like Smokey would say:
"Only YOU can prevent forum fights!"
[quote]And, that is why I wouldn't say anything about your faith. You have a peaceful heart that wants to build bridges. However, some do not. It is unfortunate, but some do not want the peace we would desire.[/quote]
Thank you, I appriciate that. Don't misunderstand me - there are certainly bigoted protestants and Muslims, so forth, and there are also certainly Catholics. It is unfortunate that people of any creed would not approach things with an open mind (yet a stout heart).
[quote]It's the nature of the human race. They want to create divisions and each side attacks the other, because of a cycle of violence. Each wants to prove they are right and the other is wrong![/quote]
Refer to my second point.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1641329' date='Aug 29 2008, 08:13 AM']Because Christians--especially Catholics--challenge the staus quo. They challenge the entire world order. Lots of people don't like that.[/quote]
Yet it's strange, most Christians like to argue that U.S. law and the Constitution are based on the Bible and Christian values... it would seem then that they ARE the status quo, not against it.

Just playing devils advocate here. I do understand your original point, but I'm making an argument anyway.

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1641921' date='Aug 29 2008, 07:12 PM']Yet it's strange, most Christians like to argue that U.S. law and the Constitution are based on the Bible and Christian values... it would seem then that they ARE the status quo, not against it.

Just playing devils advocate here. I do understand your original point, but I'm making an argument anyway.[/quote]

Fidei,

Madame, like myself, are learning that despite the expressed opinion of politicians saying they are Christian, and that the morals and laws of the land are Christian, there is a movement that is entirely against Christianity.

All you have to do is open a book like the Jesus Family Tomb, and see the attack right away. (One day, I will have to trounce that book. I have it, and in some portions of the book, where they have paintings, a familiar mark - the all seeing eye of Free Masonry/Horus/Lucifier is there. . . I wonder if this is a free mason hoax!)

And then you have the Divinci Code. After my brother read it, he asked me a ton of questions about my belief in God and the Bible, and I went, I've read a lot about church history - and yes, there were people who voted this and that, but the overwhelming response was for this.

Christianity is being attacked. . . for a reason. . . and it's the danger we bring. It isn't so much the contrast of the Status Quo, but who we have as a Father, and how far he will go to protect his children. The ones who are warring against it now witnessed a huge flood that destroyed them 5000 years ago. They want to win by diverting people from God and our lord Jesus Christ.

So, yes, the world order is against true believers, but it's not like they can win!