Apotheoun Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='kafka' post='1629912' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:20 PM']I didnt ask you and I wasnt referring to pre & post tribulation, I was referring to 1st part and 2nd part of a long sequence of events known as the Tribulation.[/quote] I don't believe in the "tribulation" that you are talking about, because it is founded upon 19th century Protestant theories. The Church has been in tribulation since the resurrection of Christ, and wiill continue in that state until the Parousia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1629910' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:18 PM']while Lucia says the consecration happened, it always bothered me that they wouldn't just get all the bishops together and directly say they're consecrating Russia and only Russia to the Immaculate Heart. it's too late now, they've staked too much on the fact that it's already been done, but how hard would it have been to just do it that way and remove all ambiguity? bah. in any event, it's not necessarily to be a magic wand waved over Russia to make that country the best and most peaceful in the world automatically... so it might be a slow process... if not for the consecration we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now... I see the fall of communism as part of the fruits of the consecration, but there are trends in Russia going the other way nowadays... probably because there isn't enough prayer and penance in the world, probably because of sin.[/quote] Thanks. I guess it suffices. Peace will come, but we just don't know when. I know prayer and fasting was asked for by Our Lady of Fatima and was central to her message. Did she only promise peace if it were consecrated and we prayed and fasted or just if it were consecrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629913' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:20 PM']Much of the private revelation nonsense going on in the Catholic Church today is infected with 19tth century Protestant ideas about the end times.[/quote] Respectfully, I asked the question about Russia. I would just like an answer. Please don't hi-jack the thread and make it about how private apparitions are all taken wrong and so forth. If you wish to discuss it, could you make another thread, because I would really like this thread to address the question I was hoping and intended it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629917' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:24 PM']Respectfully, I asked the question about Russia. I would just like an answer. Please don't hi-jack the thread and make it about how private apparitions are all taken wrong and so forth. If you wish to discuss it, could you make another thread, because I would really like this thread to address the question I was hoping and intended it too.[/quote] As far as Russia is concerned, I pray for the continued resurgence of Orthodoxy in that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='kafka' post='1629912' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:20 PM']I didnt ask you and I wasnt referring to pre & post tribulation, I was referring to 1st part and 2nd part of a long sequence of events known as the Tribulation.[/quote] Could you explain a little further about these long sequences of events known as the tribulation? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629917' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:24 PM']Respectfully, I asked the question about Russia.[/quote] BTW, I did answer your question, you just didn't like the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629918' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:25 PM']As far as Russia is concerned, I pray for the continued resurgence of Orthodoxy in that country.[/quote] Yes. Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629920' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:26 PM']BTW, I did answer your question, you just didn't like the answer.[/quote] Like I said, thanks for your in put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629919' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:26 PM']Could you explain a little further about these long sequences of events known as the tribulation? Thanks.[/quote] Here is a basic outline of it, but there is so much more found in Scripture: From the book of Daniel {7:2} I saw in my vision at night, and behold, the four winds of the heavens fought upon the great sea. ~ this is a vision Daniel recieved about the future times during the tribulation. The four winds represent the four directions east west, north south, and the great sea represents the inhabitants of the earth, since all will be affected in some way by the Tribulation {7:3} And four great beasts, different from one another, ascended from the sea. ~ the four beasts are the four major kingdoms one after the other leading up to the reign of Antichrist and the Second Coming of Jesus. {7:4} The first was like a lioness and had the wings of an eagle. I watched as its wings were plucked off, and it was raised from the earth and stood on its feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it. ~ the first kingdom (lioness with wings of an eagle) is an alliance of nations with at least one nation led by a woman (hence its female gender). The lion is a symbol of the Great Catholic of Prophecy, the wings represent the U.S. and her Air Force. Wings plucked off is the ending of the alliance of the U.S. and the kingdom of the Great Monarch which occurs after WWIV. Then the lion is transformed from a beast into a man meaning that the kingdom of the Great Monarch will be guided by reason and love. {7:5} And behold, another beast, like a bear, stood to one side, and there were three rows in its mouth and in its teeth, and they spoke to it in this way: “Arise, devour much flesh.” ~ the bear represents Russia of the 2100s (the one mentioned by the BVM at Fatima). After the era of the Great Monarch Russia will rise up. The three rows of the mouth represent three branches of government and three rows of teeth: three branches of military. Devour much flesh, means they will subdue many kingdoms and slaughter many peoples. {7:6} After this, I watched, and behold, another like a leopard, and it had wings like a bird, four upon it, and four heads were on the beast, and power was given to it. ~ the leopard represents an enormous kingdom centered somewhere in Asia including India and China during the 2200s. {7:7} After this, I watched in the vision of the night, and behold, a fourth beast, terrible yet wondrous, and exceedingly strong; it had great iron teeth, eating yet crushing, and trampling down the remainder with his feet, but it was unlike the other beasts, which I had seen before it, and it had ten horns. ~ notice the fourth beast (terrible yet wonderous) is the greatest of the four. It will rise up and utterly subdue most of the peoples of the earth, and their nations, and their cultures. The result will be one world wide kingdom with ten kings, represented by the horns, ruling over most of the earth. This will be a time of enormous error, false worship, hedonism, etc. The true Church will dwindle. This is during the 2300s and paves the way for the rise of Antichrist. {7:8} I considered the horns, and behold, another little horn rose out of the midst of them. And three of the first horns were rooted out by its presence. And behold, eyes like the eyes of a man were in this horn, and a mouth speaking unnatural things. ~ the little horn is Antichrist. He first takes one of the ten kingdoms (the North kingdom of Europe). Then he takes three more and by then the other six will be forced to give up their kingdoms to him because of the enormous military might he will have amassed by taking the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629922' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:28 PM']Like I said, thanks for your in put.[/quote] You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629645' date='Aug 17 2008, 12:46 PM']So, Our Lady said that Russia would be converted and there would be peace if Russia was consecrated to her Immaculate Heart, or at least that is my understanding of it. So, why is Russia not being peaceful and why hasn't it converted, despite that it was consecrated to her?[/quote] Because Russia was not consecrated as our Lady directed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629851' date='Aug 17 2008, 04:29 PM']Sr. Lucia has already died though, a couple years ago. I think she died at 99 years of age.[/quote] Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629862' date='Aug 17 2008, 04:35 PM']I do not pay that much attention to private revelations, which by their very nature always remain contingent, while adding nothing substantive to the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.[/quote] Well, except that the miracle of Fatima happened publicly, not privately. I mean, there were private parts. But it wasn't all private. The miracle of the sun happened for the whole world to see and even in China the scholars of ancient astronomy couldn't figure out what was happening on that day in 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='kafka' post='1629905' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:13 PM']The Russia the Blessed Virgin Mary is in the future after the first part of the Tribulation. Its not that Russia hasnt been consencrated properly, the popes and bishops should continually consencrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart maybe once every five years to lessen the suffering of those times.[/quote] I could be wrong, and I don't think I am, but this talk of "tribulation" is not Catholic. This is for snake-handler protestants down south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629919' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:26 PM']Could you explain a little further about these long sequences of events known as the tribulation? Thanks.[/quote] Why? It has nothing to do with our Great Religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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