Russia Is Not At Peace

[TotusTuusMaria]

So, Our Lady said that Russia would be converted and there would be peace if Russia was consecrated to her Immaculate Heart, or at least that is my understanding of it.

So, why is Russia not being peaceful and why hasn't it converted, despite that it was consecrated to her?

I don't know if this will turn into a debate. I hope not, but it could, so I figured I would post it here. I am just curious as to everyone's thoughts on this.

Edited August 17, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[Madame Vengier]

This will just add fuel to the fire of the dissenters who have insisted for decades that Russia was never properly consecrated in the first place and that's why all this is happening. They also say we were supposed to see the "triumph of the Immaculate Heart" in Sr. Lucia's lifetime...and she's nearly 100 years old.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[add]

Vladimir Putin is a ruthless and clandestine dictator who wants to rule to world



Beware

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1629704' date='Aug 17 2008, 02:20 PM']This will just add fuel to the fire of the dissenters who have insisted for decades that Russia was never properly consecrated in the first place and that's why all this is happening. They also say we were supposed to see the "triumph of the Immaculate Heart" in Sr. Lucia's lifetime...and she's nearly 100 years old.[/quote]

Sr. Lucia has already died though, a couple years ago. I think she died at 99 years of age.

However, I posted this because I have been hearing a lot of those 'dissenters' say this, and in some parts when they speak it does make sense. I am not getting on the wagon, but I would like a logical explanation for this. Why hasn't Russia converted when we have consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart, as our Lady told us too?

[Apotheoun]

I do not pay that much attention to private revelations, which by their very nature always remain contingent, while adding nothing substantive to the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629862' date='Aug 17 2008, 04:35 PM']I do not pay that much attention to private revelations, which by their very nature always remain contingent, while adding nothing substantive to the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.[/quote]

Understandable, however for those who do believe in the private revelations of Fatima this is a question I think that needs to be addressed or at least ... attempted by those not of the view of Fr. Gruner.

The Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, obviously had a great devotion to Our Lady of Fatima and everything has come to pass as Our Lady said... except this.

[Apotheoun]

I don't see why it has to be answered, since it isn't substantive to the faith of the Church.

The fact that John Paul II had great devotion to Fatima is merely a reflection of his private devotion, and nothing more.

[kafka]

The Russia the Blessed Virgin Mary is in the future after the first part of the Tribulation. Its not that Russia hasnt been consencrated properly, the popes and bishops should continually consencrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart maybe once every five years to lessen the suffering of those times.

[Apotheoun]

I don't buy into all the [i]pre[/i] or [i]post[/i] tribulation Protestant nonsense.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629901' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:10 PM']I don't see why it has to be answered, since it isn't substantive to the faith of the Church.

The fact that John Paul II had great devotion to Fatima is merely a reflection of his private devotion, and nothing more.[/quote]

Well, Fr. Gruner and his little following would like to convince those that are with the Church on this that the Church is hiding this last secret and thoughts like this are dangerous.

I think it would be good for those who are following the Church on this and who are with the Church in saying that Russia has been consecrated... explain why this is happening or at least give us a reason why what she said is not coming about.

You may not see a need for it to be answered, and that is fine. You don't believe in the apparition, so it wouldn't matter to you. However, for those that do and are being given these questions by those who follow Fr. Gruner... I think it important for an answer. And if there isn't an answer, then is Fr. Gruner, right?

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='kafka' post='1629905' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:13 PM']The Russia the Blessed Virgin Mary is in the future after the first part of the Tribulation. Its not that Russia hasnt been consencrated properly, the popes and bishops should continually consencrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart maybe once every five years to lessen the suffering of those times.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't know Catholics believed in pre-trib post-trib. I'm pretty sure they don't. Could you explain what your saying? Perhaps I am reading it wrong.

[Aloysius]

while Lucia says the consecration happened, it always bothered me that they wouldn't just get all the bishops together and directly say they're consecrating Russia and only Russia to the Immaculate Heart. it's too late now, they've staked too much on the fact that it's already been done, but how hard would it have been to just do it that way and remove all ambiguity? bah.

in any event, it's not necessarily to be a magic wand waved over Russia to make that country the best and most peaceful in the world automatically... so it might be a slow process... if not for the consecration we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now... I see the fall of communism as part of the fruits of the consecration, but there are trends in Russia going the other way nowadays... probably because there isn't enough prayer and penance in the world, probably because of sin.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629908' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:17 PM']Well, Fr. Gruner and his little following would like to convince those that are with the Church on this that the Church is hiding this last secret and thoughts like this are dangerous.[/quote]
Fr. Gruner and his sort become irrelevant the moment that you put private revelations within their proper place theologically.

[kafka]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1629907' date='Aug 17 2008, 05:17 PM']I don't buy into all the [i]pre[/i] or [i]post[/i] tribulation Protestant nonsense.[/quote]
I didnt ask you and I wasnt referring to pre & post tribulation, I was referring to 1st part and 2nd part of a long sequence of events known as the Tribulation.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1629909' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:18 PM']Yeah, I didn't know Catholics believed in pre-trib post-trib. I'm pretty sure they don't. Could you explain what your saying? Perhaps I am reading it wrong.[/quote]
Much of the private revelation nonsense going on in the Catholic Church today is infected with 19tth century Protestant ideas about the end times.