Pray For Jpii In Purgatory

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[font="Garamond"][size=4]What if Saddam Hussein and [url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Pl-Karol_J%C3%B3zef_Wojty%C5%82a.ogg"]Karol Wojtyła[/url] (Pope John-Paul 2) went before Saint Peter at the peril gates, at the same time? [/size][/font]

[font="Garamond"][size=4]Who would go through first? As Purgatory is not for everybody, thou all are saved. [/size][/font]

[KnightofChrist]

I'm not sure I understand, all that go to purgatory will enter heaven. But all, that is all people are not saved. Some people, in fact a great many will be punished in the fires of hell forever.

Saddam, likely went to hell.

Edited August 18, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1630927' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:55 PM']I'm not sure I understand, all that go to purgatory will enter heaven. But all, that is all people are not saved. Some people, in fact a great many will be punished in the fires of hell forever.

Saddam, likely went to hell.[/quote]


Honestly, I don't know who goes to hell. My mind tells me surely Hitler is in hell and surely the killers and rapists of children are in hell. But the truth is, I feel in awe at the thought of the mercy of God. Only God knows and sees every soul to it's very deepest depth. He's the only one who can see and understand everything and from him nothing is hidden. Therefore, his justice and his mercy are perfect. So I really can't rely on what my mind TELLS me makes sense in this issue. I will only say that ***if*** I go to Heaven (or Purgatory) and I see Hitler there, I won't be shocked. Actually, if I am truly a Christian and a good Christian, I would rejoice at any sinner being saved no matter how much **I** believed they should be in hell. It's a tricky thing and brings up a lot of conflict for me. Because I am a naturally very vengeful type of person. I don't generally act on it but the inclination is there. But when it comes to the issue of hell, I feel the need to back away and be completely humble about that.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1630984' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:26 PM']Honestly, I don't know who goes to hell. My mind tells me surely Hitler is in hell and surely the killers and rapists of children are in hell. But the truth is, I feel in awe at the thought of the mercy of God. Only God knows and sees every soul to it's very deepest depth. He's the only one who can see and understand everything and from him nothing is hidden. Therefore, his justice and his mercy are perfect. So I really can't rely on what my mind TELLS me makes sense in this issue. I will only say that ***if*** I go to Heaven (or Purgatory) and I see Hitler there, I won't be shocked. Actually, if I am truly a Christian and a good Christian, I would rejoice at any sinner being saved no matter how much **I** believed they should be in hell. It's a tricky thing and brings up a lot of conflict for me. Because I am a naturally very vengeful type of person. I don't generally act on it but the inclination is there. But when it comes to the issue of hell, I feel the need to back away and be completely humble about that.[/quote]
I remember in a homily once, on All Saints Day, the priest told us it was important to note that while the Church has a list of all the people who are SURELY in Heaven (the Saints, of course), they do not have a list of who is in Hell, because even the Church will not say that someone is in Hell.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1630995' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:32 PM']I remember in a homily once, on All Saints Day, the priest told us it was important to note that while the Church has a list of all the people who are SURELY in Heaven (the Saints, of course), they do not have a list of who is in Hell, because even the Church will not say that someone is in Hell.[/quote]

Exactly. And I think also--well, I've given it a lot of thought and meditation here and there over the years; I feel my thoughts on the subject are constantly evolving--that if we TRULY believe that Jesus came "that all may be saved" then we have to KNOW that Heaven is doing everything in its power for every single sinner. That means the intercession of all the saints, the protection and guidance of all the Angels, the power of all of the prayers of the Church militant/suffering/triumphant, everything. All of Heaven is putting its resources at work solely so that all sinners might be saved. WHO KNOWS what took place in the soul of Hitler at the moment he was breathing his last breath??? I read once some kind of personal revelation from a mystic, something about how the Blessed Mother had said that even at the very last breath if a sinner will even call out "Jesus!" they can saved and merit Purgatory no matter how horrible his sins. I read also how many sinners are saved even with one Hail Mary.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1630984' date='Aug 18 2008, 06:26 PM']Honestly, I don't know who goes to hell. My mind tells me surely Hitler is in hell and surely the killers and rapists of children are in hell. But the truth is, I feel in awe at the thought of the mercy of God. Only God knows and sees every soul to it's very deepest depth. He's the only one who can see and understand everything and from him nothing is hidden. Therefore, his justice and his mercy are perfect. So I really can't rely on what my mind TELLS me makes sense in this issue. I will only say that ***if*** I go to Heaven (or Purgatory) and I see Hitler there, I won't be shocked. Actually, if I am truly a Christian and a good Christian, I would rejoice at any sinner being saved no matter how much **I** believed they should be in hell. It's a tricky thing and brings up a lot of conflict for me. Because I am a naturally very vengeful type of person. I don't generally act on it but the inclination is there. But when it comes to the issue of hell, I feel the need to back away and be completely humble about that.[/quote]

I know I agree, it is just likely, yet we don't know for sure we are not the God alone is Judge.

[Winchester]

[img]http://cliffordcoonan.dreamhosters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bjork_07.jpg[/img]

[MakeYouThink]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1631045' date='Aug 18 2008, 08:03 PM'][img]http://cliffordcoonan.dreamhosters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bjork_07.jpg[/img][/quote]

But she's cute. I couldn't live with myself if she was in Hell!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MakeYouThink' post='1631065' date='Aug 18 2008, 08:13 PM']But she's cute. I couldn't live with myself if she was in Hell!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/quote]


I agree. No way could Bjork go to hell. This is the woman who wore a chicken to an awards show!! She is AWESOMENESS. This is the woman who beat down a reporter in the airport in full view of everyone because the reporter had been harassing her for days. This is the woman who sang one of my favorite songs ever, All is Full of Love. She can't go to hell!!!!!!!

[Winchester]

Didn't say she was.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1631078' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:18 PM']I agree. No way could Bjork go to hell. This is the woman who wore a chicken to an awards show!! She is AWESOMENESS. This is the woman who beat down a reporter in the airport in full view of everyone because the reporter had been harassing her for days. This is the woman who sang one of my favorite songs ever, All is Full of Love. She can't go to hell!!!!!!! [/quote]
She was the favorite of a guy I went to high school with. He tried to kill me.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote]Didn't say she was.[/quote]

No you were just making a Off Topic joke which has dittly to do with the topic.

Edited August 19, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Winchester]

Sandwiches.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1631086' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:23 PM']She was the favorite of a guy I went to high school with. He tried to kill me. [/quote]


Are you for reelz?

Um. I can see where she might attract weirdos or unstable people. Which is a shame b/c she certainly has done nothing overtly to attract them. Now Madonna....that's another case. SHE attracts perverts and weirdos and she does it on purpose.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1631102' date='Aug 18 2008, 07:30 PM']Are you for reelz?

Um. I can see where she might attract weirdos or unstable people. Which is a shame b/c she certainly has done nothing overtly to attract them. Now Madonna....that's another case. SHE attracts perverts and weirdos and she does it on purpose. [/quote]
Yeah, he was/is REALLY weird, but that isn't entirely his fault. His family was...odd...
He hated Madonna, though. lol, but I do remember a picture of Bjork wearing a swan dress thing...and it always made me smile.



Back on topic...
As far as my understanding goes if we pray at all for or to JPII it will help him or someone else. Plus, if the Church allows us to believe that someone is in Heaven, I REALLY don't understand how it could be wrong to pray to them, or where there is even a debate.

Edited August 19, 2008 by MissScripture