FX2 Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 ok, so it was God's will for Jesus to die on the cross to redeem our sins? So does that make Pilate bad for sentenceing him to death? Or was he just fufilling out God's will? What does the church take on this? Also, how accurate was Pilate portrayed in the Passion? (Dont turn this into a TPOTC talk...i just wanna know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 God uses the wicked to fulfill his plan, even though they don't know it... just as Judas was used... [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12083c.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12083c.htm[/url] Also see: htp://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers/ In the Gospel of Nicodemus is quite a bit of stuff on Pilate. [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/08071A.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/08071A.htm[/url] [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/08071B.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/08071B.htm[/url] Also see: HOMILIES OF ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM ON THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST. JOHN, HOMILIES LXXXII TO LXXXV (JOHN 17 TO 20) HOMILIES OF ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM ON THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL THE APOSTLE TO TIMOTHY, HOMILIES XIV TO XVIII (CHAPTERS 5 & 6) JUSTIN MARTYR: THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN (CHAP. I to CHAP. LXVIII) HOMILIES OF ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM ON THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST. MATTHEW, HOMILIES LXXXVI & XC (MATT. 27 & 28) There is quite a bit.... You'll have to go through and read it. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 The Abyssinian Coptic Orthodox Church names him and his wife in their litany of saints. Tradition goes that she converted to Christianity and got him to convert and then both were eventually martyred. I think Mel Gibson alluded to this a little in the Passion Movie by depicting Claudia, Pilate's his wife, as horrified by the crucifixion and trying to change her husband's mind and also showing her comforting the BVM. Even if it is just a legend it makes a nice ending and that God has a plan for everyone and every human is created to do God's will and is able to recieve forgiveness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 ha just read the monk's new advent post it's all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 FX2 you couldn't have picked a harder topic if you tried, what your question touches on is the whole mystery of evil and why God allows it, though in this case we get an idea, because He uses pilate's evil as part of the means by which salvation is brought into the world. It doesn't make the evil of the crucifixion any less evil, and it doesn't negate free choice because even if that wasn't how God would bring salvation they still would have killed Jesus (let's not bother with the whole then Jesus wouldn't be there because that just muddles it further) the fact is at any time they could have chosen to not crucify Jesus (let's not forget pilate wasn't the only character who had veto power in that situation) I do hope pilate and his wife converted because it is too horrible to imagine finding out only after death what you did when it is too late for repentance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 So you are saying neither Judas or Pilate had exercise of freewill? I don't think God used them for evil, that's kind of sinister sounding. No one can be created soley for evil and to go to hell because we are all made in the image and likeness of God, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 That's pretty Calvinistic. They chose freely, but played into God's hand. Pilate really didn't ahve much choice... damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 THink about the Pharoah and Moses. God used his hardness of heart to save the hebrews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Mar 4 2004, 09:00 AM'] THink about the Pharoah and Moses. God used his hardness of heart to save the hebrews. [/quote] All his hardness of heart did was bring on the 10 plagues. Moses asked Pharoah in God's Name 10 times to let my people go. God's knew all along because He's alpha and omega, just like what he knows about us, but Pharoah didn't have to keep saying no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Detail about Pilate: - Report of Pontius Pilate (unknown date; late) -- First Greek - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0809A.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0809A.htm[/url] Second Greek forms - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0809B.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0809B.htm[/url] - Letter of Pontius Pilate (unknown date; late) - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0810.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0810.htm[/url] - Giving Up of Pontius Pilate (unknown date; late) - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0811.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0811.htm[/url] - Death of Pilate (unknown date; late) - [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0812.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0812.htm[/url] God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 According to history wasn't Pilate one of the worst tyrants around in that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Carrie' date='Mar 4 2004, 02:30 PM'] According to history wasn't Pilate one of the worst tyrants around in that time? [/quote] But then according to the Gospels, which are "history", he had doubts about killing Christ. He told Christ, "I have the power to free you." He wanted Christ to give him a reason to let Him go. He even washed his hands of it. He may have been a tyrant, but I'll bet his wife never had any qualms with the other prisoners. Not to mention, he had himself spoken with Christ - who said that He was God. Um... I wouldn't be very anxious to kill a person claiming to be God. Especially after my wife told me not to. Just some observations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Carrie' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:30 PM'] According to history wasn't Pilate one of the worst tyrants around in that time? [/quote] Why not read the links I posted and find out. That is from the Apocrypha. Writings from the first Christians. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:47 PM'] Why not read the links I posted and find out. That is from the Apocrypha. Writings from the first Christians. God Bless, ironmonk [/quote] Ok, you caught me, I didn't read them. But I will now! Props to Ironmonk, for having all the info we need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='Jake Huether' date='Mar 4 2004, 05:38 PM'] But then according to the Gospels, which are "history", he had doubts about killing Christ. He told Christ, "I have the power to free you." He wanted Christ to give him a reason to let Him go. He even washed his hands of it. He may have been a tyrant, but I'll bet his wife never had any qualms with the other prisoners. Not to mention, he had himself spoken with Christ - who said that He was God. Um... I wouldn't be very anxious to kill a person claiming to be God. Especially after my wife told me not to. Just some observations... [/quote] Thanks for your thoughts Jake. I agree with you, I wouldn't be in a rush to kill a man claiming to God either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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