Did Mein Kampf Influence Islamic Terror?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1672936' date='Oct 8 2008, 07:07 PM']And you know this how, pray tell? Why don't you share with us what you know, since you are so fixed on me being wrong.

And what makes you think Hassan (who CLAIMS to have been raised Catholic and with Jewish family members and claims also to NOT be a Muslim, but yet spends 90% of his time on PM defending Islam--erroneously--and telling others they are wrong on Islam) has any place to tell someone else they are wrong on Islam?[/quote]


I spend so much time on Islam because I feel morally obligated to attack your more bigoted claims about Muslims and glaring inaccuracies about Islam.

[Hassan]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1672914' date='Oct 8 2008, 06:26 PM']I am glad you are here to call MV out. Someone needs to.[/quote]


Thank you very much, that means a lot.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1672577' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:46 AM']I don't believe its an unfair generalization.[/quote]


You brought up averages. The overwhelming majority of Muslims have never commited terroristic actions, it is not fair to make a generalization based on the actions of a small segment of a population.




[quote]Not only are most terrorists Muslims[/quote]

Can you support this?

On what time span?

That is much to sloppy a claim.


[quote]but most Muslim countries are extremists.[/quote]

How do you define extremist and how do you define "Muslim Country"?


[quote]Its possible that there are some non extremist Muslims but I don't that's representative of the majority.[/quote]

You can think what you want. You need to support it.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1672909' date='Oct 8 2008, 06:19 PM']Are the terrorists you named committing thousands (literally) of attacks and/or carrying out other acts of oppression and violations of basic human rights [u]on every continent on the Earth[/u]?[/quote]

I didn't say that they were committing thousands of attacks on various continents. I said that many are Muslim, I simply object to people thinking that only Muslims are terrorists or that every Muslim is a terrorist. All religions and cultures are capable of committing violence, because every human is. It's all or nothing thinking, and language, that shuts down true discourse.

[ardillacid]

I didn't realize Antartica is a battleground

[CatherineM]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1673065' date='Oct 8 2008, 09:49 PM']I didn't realize Antartica is a battleground [/quote]

You'd be surprised. Right now Great Briton is trying to document areas of Antarctica they can claim predates the Antarctic treaty, so that they can sew up future oil drilling rights. It warms up any more down there, and lots of countries are going to be fighting.

[Hassan]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1673065' date='Oct 8 2008, 10:49 PM']I didn't realize Antartica is a battleground [/quote]

Only because the Jihad loveing liberal media hides it

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1673060' date='Oct 8 2008, 10:35 PM']I didn't say that they were committing thousands of attacks on various continents. I said that many are Muslim, I simply object to people thinking that only Muslims are terrorists or that every Muslim is a terrorist. All religions and cultures are capable of committing violence, because every human is. It's all or nothing thinking, and language, that shuts down true discourse.[/quote]


First of all, NOBODY said all Muslims are terrorists. So I don't even know why you felt the need to clarify that (quite out of the blue, I might add, unless I missed something previous to your comment). Secondly, your comment sounded totally and completely relativist (i.e. "Muslim extremists aren't the only terrorists--just look at the KKK"). You cannot compare large-scale terrorist operations like Islamic jihadists with small organizations like ETA.

You have the right to make your point and I have the right to make mine. What's the big deal? I made my point which is that Islamic terrorism is currently the largest, most widespread, most violent and most oppressive force of tyranny presently at work in the world. If my saying that "shuts down discourse", so be it.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1672940' date='Oct 8 2008, 08:16 PM']Since you are the one making all the outrageous claims, Madame, I think that you are the one who needs to show that we should believe you.[/quote]


Oh please. You are so late to this. I have provided NUMEROUS facts, links, and sources for the things I say here. So have Socrates, Lounge Daddy and Apotheoun. It's not my problem if people choose not to read and choose to ignore the material that is provided to them.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1672940' date='Oct 8 2008, 08:16 PM']Since you are the one making all the outrageous claims, Madame, I think that you are the one who needs to show that we should believe you.[/quote]


And BTW, you are so out of your depth on this issue that you can't even state exactly what my "outrageous claims" are. I find it incredible that all I ever post here are facts that anyone can find in every day news items, and yet some of you act like you have not the foggiest idea what I'm talking about or thatI'm making it all up. You all act surprised and accuse me of "hating Muslims" when I report that yet another group of Christians are under attack by Muslims, or that yet another lawsuit in the UK is taking place by Muslims demanding special treatment. This is basic news and yet you all act like you don't know WHERE it's coming from, it can't possibly be true, so I must be just be pulling this stuff out of my ear.

Stay clueless if you want to. But don't then tell others that they make "outrageous claims". It's also notable that you failed to address the question of how you think Hassan came to be the resident Islamic scholar of Phatmass. That part is the most hilarious of all.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1673265' date='Oct 9 2008, 07:06 AM']Oh please. You are so late to this. I have provided NUMEROUS facts, links, and sources for the things I say here. So have Socrates, Lounge Daddy and Apotheoun. It's not my problem if people choose not to read and choose to ignore the material that is provided to them.[/quote]


OMG!


Do you want to debate your "evidence"?

Seriously, anytime you want to debate your methodology PLEASE let me know

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1673266' date='Oct 9 2008, 07:13 AM']And BTW, you are so out of your depth on this issue that you can't even state exactly what my "outrageous claims" are. I find it incredible that all I ever post here are facts that anyone can find in every day news items, and yet some of you act like you have not the foggiest idea what I'm talking about or thatI'm making it all up. You all act surprised and accuse me of "hating Muslims" when I report that yet another group of Christians are under attack by Muslims, or that yet another lawsuit in the UK is taking place by Muslims demanding special treatment. This is basic news and yet you all act like you don't know WHERE it's coming from, it can't possibly be true, so I must be just be pulling this stuff out of my ear.

Stay clueless if you want to. But don't then tell others that they make "outrageous claims". It's also notable that you failed to address the question of how you think Hassan came to be the resident Islamic scholar of Phatmass. That part is the most hilarious of all.[/quote]

LOL!

Time for.....[b] FUN WITH QUOTES[/b]!

[i]"This is a futile effort. The Muslims do not and have not aligned themselves with "the right" whatsoever, despite the fact that morally and culturally they have more in common with devoted Catholics and other Christians than they do with any single other group on the planet. But they don't care about this. They align themselves with the liberal Democrats because that is who panders to them, thus enabling them to advance Islam in America. [b]Muslims want to advance the cause of Islam wherever they go even at the expense of all else.[/b] That is their Number One Priority. And I don't blame them. It's what they feel God wants them to do. [b]They are not interested in assimilating nor being patriotic nor being "part of" anything outside Islam (that is why they don't align themselves with the people who are closest to their own moral and spiritual ideology).[/b] The notion that the conservatives can do a dance with the Muslims to win them over would be laughable if it truly weren't so sadly naive. "[/i]

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673684' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:01 PM']OMG!


Do you want to debate your "evidence"?

Seriously, anytime you want to debate your methodology PLEASE let me know[/quote]
Thus far, I have seen no solid refutation of the evidence - only dismissal of any reporting of the reality of Islamic terror as "hateful" or "bigotry" (along with completely unfounded and silly assertions that Christian religion is responsible for as much terrorism as Islam - while politically-correct, a blatant lie.)

No real contrary evidence is offered. Simply charging "ignorance" or "bigotry" refutes nothing.

From Wikipedia ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism"]Check original sources in article here[/url]):
[quote]Muslim popular opinion on the subject of attacks on civilians by Islamist groups varies. While most Muslims living in the West denounce the September 11th attacks on the US, Hezbollah's rocket attacks against Israeli civilian targets are widely supported in the Muslim world and regarded as defensive Jihad by a legitimate resistance movement rather than terrorism.[106][107]

[b]A Sunday Times survey taken in UK shortly after the 9/11 attack "revealed that 40% of British Muslims believe Usama bin Laden was right to attack the United States. About the same proportion think that British Muslims have a right to fight alongside the Taliban. A radio station serving London's Pakistani community conducted a poll which 98% of London Muslims under 45 said they would not fight for Britain, while 48% said they would fight for bin Laden." [108][/b]

A 2005 Pew Research study that involved 17,000 people in 17 countries showed support for terrorism was declining in the Muslim world along with a growing belief that Islamic extremism represents a threat to those countries.[109] A Daily Telegraph survey[110] showed that 6% of British Muslims fully supported the July 2005 bombings in the London Underground.

[b]A 2004 Pew survey revealed that Osama bin Laden is viewed favorably by large percentages in Pakistan (65%), Jordan (55%) and Morocco (45%). In Turkey as many as 31% say that suicide attacks against Americans and other Westerners in Iraq are justifiable.[111][112][/b]

The Free Muslims Coalition[113] rallied against terror, stating that they wanted to send "a message to radical Muslims and supporters of terrorism that we reject them and that we will defeat them."

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Muslim and the general manager of Arab news channel, Al-Arabiya has said:[b] "It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."[/b] Statistics compiled by the United States government's Counterterrorism Center present a more complicated picture: [b]of known and specified terrorist incidents from the beginning of 2004 through the first quarter of 2005, slightly more than half of the fatalities were attributed to Islamic extremists but a majority of over-all incidents were considered of either "unknown/unspecified" or a secular political nature. The vast majority of the "unknown/unspecified" terrorism fatalities did however happen in Islamic regions such as Iraq and Afghanistan, or in regions where Islam is otherwise involved in conflicts such as the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, southern Thailand and Kashmir.[/b]The methodology employed by the Center is sometimes disputed and the center has been accused of responding to political pressure from the Bush administration to show a decline in terrorism.[114][/quote]

I've seen such statistics cited widely, and the reality of Islamic terror is not opinion, but established documented fact. To deny it is to deny reality in favor of political correctness.

And there is much more cited in the threads you repeatedly dismiss.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1672912' date='Oct 8 2008, 07:22 PM']Remember, when it comes to Islam and Muslims we're not talking about JUST terrorist acts. Islam can't be chalked up to JUST violent acts. We're talking also about numerous forms of oppression--particularly against women and girls--and various violations of basic human rights and freedoms. And this is [u]all. over. the. world[/u].[/quote]

Yes, this is what I mean to say.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1673876' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:29 PM']Thus far, I have seen no solid refutation of the evidence - only dismissal of any reporting of the reality of Islamic terror as "hateful" or "bigotry"[/quote]

Many times MV will cite something factually correct and derive a bigoted conclusion. For example when she cites that most Muslims vote for more liberal cannidates, and then concludes it is because of a sinister universal plot to spread Islam.



[quote](along with completely unfounded and silly assertions that Christian religion is responsible for as much terrorism as Islam - while politically-correct, a blatant lie.)[/quote]

I do not believe I ever said that, you can't quantitfy terrorism however Christians have been just a violent and brutal as Muslims.

[quote]No real contrary evidence is offered. Simply charging "ignorance" or "bigotry" refutes nothing.[/quote]

Cite me some evidence I have ignored and we will debate it.




[quote]I've seen such statistics cited widely, and the reality of Islamic terror is not opinion, but established documented fact. To deny it is to deny reality in favor of political correctness.[/quote]


I never denied that "Islamic terrorism" exists Chief.



[quote]And there is much more cited in the threads you repeatedly dismiss.[/quote]

Most of MV's claims about Muslims I see simply do not rise to the dignity of error. If there is anything specific show me and we will look at it.