Ghosts

[cmotherofpirl]

Excerpt from Apologist Jimmy Akins on ghosts:
While there are, no doubt, many liberals who are attracted to the ghost hypothesis on account of New Age beliefs, consider the following:

"Ghost" is simply the German-derived equivalent of the Latin-derived word "Spirit." That's why the Holy Spirit is sometimes referred to as the Holy Ghost. Originally in English "ghost" and "spirit" referred to the same thing. Indeed, in German the word for "spirit" is still "geist." Rather than get hung up on semantics, we may wish to analyze claims about ghosts in terms of what we know about spirits.
First, spirits exist. This is a truth of the faith.
Second, spirits can sometimes manifest themselves to those in this life, as in the apparitions of the saints.
Third, there are even reports in Catholic history that spirits in purgatory have--by God's will--occasionally manifested themselves to those on earth. In these cases, those on earth may see the spirits experiencing their purgation in some way.
Therefore, if these reports are true, God may at times allow spirits to manifest to those on earth in a way that might lead folks to describe them as "ghosts."
Now, I'm not saying that this actually happens. I'm just saying that we shouldn't quickly scoff at the idea. It certainly has a place in Catholic tradition (lower "t" tradition). I know that folks today often repeat the mantra "There's no such things as ghosts," but it seems to me that this may have more with the influence of a secular/scientistic worldview than anything else. I see no theological reason to say that God doesn't allow this to happen on occasion. (On the other hand, I see no theological reason that compels us to the conclusion that he does, either.)

One note on the possibility of ghosts: Sometimes folks think of ghosts (or some ghosts) as malevolent. I don't see how that would be possible on the above account. Souls experiencing purgatory might seem strage or disquieting to individuals in this life and might appear malevolent, but they would not be. I don't see any evidence, though, that genuinely malevolent souls--i.e., the souls of the damned--could manifest on earth. Thus any genuinely malevolent ghosts would more likely represent demonic activity as far as I can tell.

These two phenomena--the "purgatory ghosts" and demons--also might explain so-called haunted houses and poltergeists ("noisy ghosts" in German).

[johnnydigit]

i've never seen a ghost. people i trust say they have, and i believe them. sometimes they were the only ones that could see them.

demons exist. some people can see them.. does that not count?

i guess a more specific question would be, can a spirit physically manifest itself on earth by becoming visual to any eye looking at it, or by manipulating matter (pushing something)?

people like Jesse Romero talk about people levitating. i've never seen anything extraordinary like that, but i don't doubt it.

[lilac_angel]

Jimmy Akin's thoughts on it seem pretty logical to me. I've read quite a few accounts of people allowed to become spiritually manifest to souls on earth while they're in Purgatory.

Edited August 12, 2008 by lilac_angel

[Selah]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624440' date='Aug 11 2008, 06:34 PM']+J.M.J.+
I was recently told that there is no such thing as ghosts (from a Catholic perspective). I'm not sure what to believe, so what do you think? From a Catholic perspective, is there such a thing as ghosts?[/quote]

I believe in ghosts. However, in reguards to ghosts wandering the earth...I do not believe that spirits are stranded or haunt places, etc. I think that demoniac activity can manisfest itself as a ghost to deceive, however. Although I do think that if God allows it, he can permit a departed soul to go back to earth for a period. I use the Transfiguration and also, was not St. Agatha healed through a vision of St. Peter after being brutally assulted? God can allow these things to happen. However, I am very much skeptical about ghost stories, evp's, etc.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='Selah' post='1624811' date='Aug 11 2008, 09:12 PM']I believe in ghosts. However, in reguards to ghosts wandering the earth...I do not believe that spirits are stranded or haunt places, etc. I think that demoniac activity can manisfest itself as a ghost to deceive, however. Although I do think that if God allows it, he can permit a departed soul to go back to earth for a period. I use the Transfiguration and also, was not St. Agatha healed through a vision of St. Peter after being brutally assulted? God can allow these things to happen. However, I am very much skeptical about ghost stories, evp's, etc.[/quote]

The vision of saint Peter would be considered an "apparition" more commonly among Catholics, especially since he's in Heaven. But I guess the two terms, ghost and apparition, are pretty much the same things...

[LouisvilleFan]

However, apparitions have a purpose where ghosts just seem to "be there," plus they are always specifically witnessing to the faith in some way.

I've really never thought about the possibility of ghosts being souls in purgatory. Considering some of the stories you hear about how some people died whose ghost has been seen makes me think that's a reasonable possibility. Of course, this past Sunday's reading was about Jesus appearing on the Sea of Galilee and the disciples originally mistook him for a ghost. I think it's interesting Jesus never corrects them for believing such a thing as ghosts exist. In fact, if what Jimmy Akin says is true about the common reasoning, "There's no such things as ghosts," as coming from our skeptical scientific mindset, then the existence of ghosts must not have been doubted by many before the Renaissance.

Either way, I'd love to see a ghost someday.

[Selah]

The question is, if there are such things as ghosts, why are they still on earth and why did they not cross over to the after life? Could such a thing even happen anyway?

[LouisvilleFan]

Who says the afterlife can't cross over into our existence?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624440' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:34 PM']+J.M.J.+
I was recently told that there is no such thing as ghosts (from a Catholic perspective). I'm not sure what to believe, so what do you think? From a Catholic perspective, is there such a thing as ghosts?[/quote]


No. As far as the spirit world goes, I believe there are only angels and demons.

[Selah]

I respectfully disagree with you. I think there is a possibility of there being more spirits out there somewhere...like nature spirits, astral spirits, etc.

Edited August 12, 2008 by Selah

[StColette]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1624743' date='Aug 11 2008, 09:13 PM']Third, there are even reports in Catholic history that spirits in purgatory have--by God's will--occasionally manifested themselves to those on earth. In these cases, those on earth may see the spirits experiencing their purgation in some way.[/quote]

I've always been taught this in regard to ghosts. That God allows certain souls in purgatory to appear to people in order that they may serve as a reminder about the souls that are in Purgatory so that we will not forget that they are there and are in need of our prayers.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1625211' date='Aug 12 2008, 09:38 AM']Who says the afterlife can't cross over into our existence?[/quote]

Maybe they're in hell and we are just allowed glimpses of them every so often... Satan can "work wonders"; God allows all kinds of weird things. If not possessions and levitations, why not catching glimpses of damned souls? They might not *really* be on earth, but we might be able to see them anyway, for some unknown reason...

Edited August 12, 2008 by lilac_angel

[LouisvilleFan]

So in purgatory you get to go around scaring people at night? Hmm... that could be kinda fun

Actually, I don't intend to dismiss that possibility. I think it makes sense, but it's one of those things that's obviously not for us to know.

[Deb]

I don't know. I have had some very strange experiences in my life that I cannot explain. I have a photo I took about 20 years ago on the North Shore. We stayed where we always do, but we were in a small cabin I had never stayed in before. We were going to go into Grand Marais one day and I snapped a photo of the cabin before I got into the car.

I got my photos developed and very clearly in one window are two children. Very cherubic looking. The window was the bathroom window and there were no children with us nor anyone in the cabin at the time. I have puzzled over that for so long. I even had it blown up into different sizes but, the larger they got, the less you could see them. It was like they were only appearing clearly in the original print. I have the photo on my desk right now.

[LouisvilleFan]

Wild... are you able to scan it? Would be awesome for show-and-tell