Ghosts

[dominicansoul]

The other night, me and a friend went to a Catholic cemetary to pray for the souls of the faithful departed.

Walking back towards her car, her automatic doors unlocked without her even touching the remote on her car keys!

We just looked at each other...but i thought to myself....could this be some sort of ghost that followed us from the cemetary?

[TIWW]

Hard to not believe in them when those who have left their bodies behind, rejoin us in spirit from time to time.

When the Sacred heart of jesus came to Margaret Mary, or the "Immaculate Conception" visited Bernadette, they were not there in BODY, they were there in "Spirit"

When my noncatholic friends try to question my beliefs about Apparitions of various kinds, I have to reply, when you grow up in the 50's & 60's & mary is showing up, talking to these children ( usualy in Europe somwehre) we just accept that it happens.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1698983' date='Nov 10 2008, 03:31 PM']The other night, me and a friend went to a Catholic cemetary to pray for the souls of the faithful departed.

Walking back towards her car, her automatic doors unlocked without her even touching the remote on her car keys!

We just looked at each other...but i thought to myself....could this be some sort of ghost that followed us from the cemetary?[/quote]

Or, a thank you for your prayers

[cheryl]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624440' date='Aug 11 2008, 05:34 PM']+J.M.J.+
I was recently told that there is no such thing as ghosts (from a Catholic perspective). I'm not sure what to believe, so what do you think? From a Catholic perspective, is there such a thing as ghosts?[/quote]

I would agree with others insomuch as there is at least a history of believing that "ghosts" are actually the souls in purgatory. Remember Hamlet's father's appearance in Act 1, Scene 4:

[quote]I am thy father's spirit, Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night, And for the day confined to fast in fires, Till the foul crimes done in my days of nature Are burnt and purged away. But that I am forbid To tell the secrets of my prison-house, I could a tale unfold whose lightest word Would harrow up thy soul, freeze thy young blood, Make thy two eyes, like stars, start from their spheres, Thy knotted and combined locks to part And each particular hair to stand on end, Like quills upon the fretful porpentine: But this eternal blazon must not be To ears of flesh and blood.[/quote]


To my knowledge there are five different types of hauntings.

1)The first is residual. These are the "ghosts" that go through walls, seem to talk the same paths or do the same things every time they're seen and are oblivious to you. These are not actual spirits. But as the name implies, they're "memories" if you will, from the past, that as strange as it sounds, were "video-taped" by time and space and keeps replaying itself.

2)The second kind are demonic. They can appear as deceased family members or whatever. But they eventual show their true colors by just overall negativity. For example, they'll sometimes try to wear a person down, through depression ect. They will inflict bodily harm, try to cause discord between members of the family. And if they can wear a person down enough to control them, they may try to then actually possess them.

3)The third kind are poltergeist. Sometimes this can be demonic activity, but the prevalent opinion, is that this sort of activity ie objects moving, lights turning off and on, are not caused by any spirit at all, but by a living person (usually troubled).

4)The fourth kind are actually human spirits. Some are evil and can be confused with the demonic. Some are good...you might say...but usually seems to not want to be there, and would rather "move on", but something is holding them back. This would fit into the idea of purgatory. In CS Lewis' The Great Divorce, when souls first arrived in heaven they were prompted by others to let go of their sins, some did, some didn't, some were scared too ect. But until they did, they couldn't "move on". Purgatory may be the state in which souls still attached to this earth, or their sins, or whatever, are not able to "move on" because of these attachments, even though they desperately want to. And it's not until they let go that they are able to "move on".

5) A fifth kind of ghost, are really neither demons, figments, or deceased persons, but are earthly creatures that appear less tangible than we are. This is where stories of fairies and leprechauns ect. originated from. They seem to show some degree of intelligence and can get nasty and play tricks. They usually appear as swarms of light.

------------------------
None of this is my personal beliefs. This is just want I've come to learn from my own personal studies. I voted "yes" on the poll, because I do believe people are seeing something, but what that something is, I can't say and you will never find me in a haunted house.

Edited November 17, 2008 by cheryl

[Nihil Obstat]

The ghost thread rises from the grave to feed on the posts of the living!!

(It wasn't me, I promise.)

[elizabeth09]

I have watch Ghost Hunter, but sill do not believe in ghost.

[goldenchild17]

I watch ghost hunters (just for fun, don't actually really believe they find much of anything) but I definitely believe ghosts are very real.

[whatsup]

[quote]A. GHOSTS OF THE FIRST KIND: The first kind Kreeft calls the “sad ones” or “wispy ones”. These Ghosts seem to be working out some unfinished business of some sort, or suffering some purgatorial purification.

He says that these Ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it into Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past lives on earth. God, in his compassion, may realize that to allow the person to get through Purgatory that it may be useful for them to learn some lessons on this earth.

B. GHOSTS OF THE SECOND KIND: A Second kind may be some of these purgatorial ghosts who might have been so material minded in their earthly life that they can't detach themselves from these Material places or possessions. God may allow them to remain attached as they work out their need to “let go”.

C. GHOSTS OF THE THIRD KIND: A third type might be those who don't yet realize they are dead. Again, in God's compassion, I can see why He would allow a spirit to linger for a short while so that they may realize their fate before leaving this world completely. In both the “second kind” and “third kind” God could, of course, force the person to let go of the material place or to come on through the “gate” and not linger. But a compassionate Father can also allow for a “little” tolerance to help the person to adjust.

D. GHOSTS OF A FOURTH KIND: A Fourth type are the malicious and deceptive spirits. These are the one who probably appear at séances and the like and are most likely from hell. And most likely are demons disguised as dead loved ones and not the human persons themselves.

E. GHOSTS OF A FIFTH KIND: A Fifth type are the bright, happy spirits of dead friends and family who appear unbidden at God's will, not ours, with messages of hope and love. They seem to come from heaven. These type may come to a loved one to say goodbye or to comfort after a funeral for example. Or these type may come to a relative or friend in "great" need. There are very trustworthy empirical and psychological evidence for these phenomena.

F. GHOSTS OF A SIXTH KIND: (updated: 9/4/08) A sixth type involves the ghost performing a certain scene repetitively. For example, a ghost of this type may go from the top of the stairs to the bottom and then disappear. This may happen over and over again. It never changes. The Ghost never interacts with anyone, and we cannot interact with it. It never changes facial expression nor does it ever acknowledge anything around it.

There are many theories to explain this phenomenon, but no real explanations. A popular notion is the concept of a “Residual Ghost”, which I originally posited in 1999. Since that time, after a more careful study of physics changed my position on this. The notion of a Residual Ghost is well expressed recently by Jason Hawes of the Atlantic Paranormal Society: that “A residual haunting is like having an impression made in time. The entity may seem to be lost in a time warp. The spirit really isn't even there, only the energy is.” The Glossary on their website gives a more formal definition:

Psychic imprint of a scene which is repeatedly played out, where the witness of such phenomenon essentially is peering into the past. The ghostly participants of these time-displacements often seem unaware of their living observers.

There are significant problems with this theory. The physics of matter and energy makes this theory nearly impossible. Cody Polston, Founder and President of the Southwest Ghost Hunter's Association, gives a very good and succinct scientific explanation of why the Residual Haunting is implausible in his article, Residual hauntings, a flawed hypothesis.

Ockham's razor (“All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best”) advises us to avoid complex explanations. The theory of Residual Ghosts creates all sorts of problems that must be resolved before it can be plausible. A more plausible and simpler explanation is that “residual ghosts” are actually demonic in origin.

We know from cases throughout the history of the Church that one of Satan's tactics is to instill an unhealthy curiosity into things concerning the paranormal. To experience a “residual ghost” usually creates an interest and curiosity on the part of the experiencer in the paranormal. Sometimes the experiencer will further explore contact with the spirit world or other dangerous explorations into the paranormal. God warns us of the danger to our soul by trying to contact the dead. Our Lord calls these activities an abomination (Deut. 18:9-12). Satan would love to inspire such curiosity and to lure a person into his sandbox.

G. GHOSTS OF THE SEVENTH KIND: Some “apparent” ghostly apparitions or effects may be the bi-location of the living...the Astral projections of living people. This can be postulated from scriptural evidence (Rev. 17:3; 21:10; and 2 Cor 12:2), and from verified reports of bi-location of people like Padre Pio.[/quote]

this is according to this source [url="http://www.saint-mike.org/spcdc/library/7ghosts.asp"]http://www.saint-mike.org/spcdc/library/7ghosts.asp[/url]

[HisChildForever]

I had a creepy experience last Sunday. I was home by myself (rest of the fam went to younger brother's basketball game, I was studying all day for exams) and the stereo in my brothers' room turned on, BY ITSELF, to a classical music station. First of all, my brothers do not listen to classical music. Second of all, the stereo does not have such a feature. It cannot be programed to turn on like an alarm clock radio. The volume was pretty low, which is also weird...it was just very eerie. I had gone into the kitchen to get something to eat, the house is pretty much dark, and I hear this soft music coming from down the hall. The stereo was definitely off before this little incident because our rooms are next door. I would have heard it.

[HollyDolly]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624440' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:34 PM']+J.M.J.+
I was recently told that there is no such thing as ghosts (from a Catholic perspective). I'm not sure what to believe, so what do you think? From a Catholic perspective, is there such a thing as ghosts?[/quote]

I believe there is.After all, Catholics believe in the bible, and the bible mentions, angels, demons and ghosts. In the OT, I think it's David maybe who goes to see the Witch of Endor who summons the ghost of Saul who is then asked about a battle and it's out come I think.
Also After Jesus has risen from the dead in the NT, He encounters the apostles.
They can't believe what they are seeing that it is really Jesus. He tells them he is no ghost or spirit
and to touch Him. St. Thomas does and realizes it is truly Our Lord.It's from this event that we get the phrase "Doubting Thomas".
If Our Lord tells the apostles that he is not a ghost or spirit, then there must be such things,else why would Jesus mention them?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1814711' date='Mar 23 2009, 08:35 AM']If Our Lord tells the apostles that he is not a ghost or spirit, then there must be such things,else why would Jesus mention them?[/quote]

To play devil's advocate here, when we are frightened our minds tend to run off on us. The apostles looked at Jesus and immediately came to the conclusion that He was some kind of ghost, so He quickly reassured them that this was not so. Just because Christ said He was not a ghost does not automatically mean that they exist. Take the example of my brother's radio that I posted. Just because for a fraction of a second I thought it was a supernatural occurrence does not mean it WAS a supernatural occurrence. Furthermore, you mentioned the story from the Old Testament of the witch summoning a deceased prophet. This is slightly different than what we presently call a ghost, I would call that an apparition. When we think of a ghost we think of a soul who has been "trapped" on earth - that, after death, the soul did not move on. In my opinion that is contrary to our faith. Christ said that everyone is going to face their judgment after death.

Edited March 23, 2009 by HisChildForever

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1814713' date='Mar 23 2009, 09:49 AM']To play devil's advocate here, when we are frightened our minds tend to run off on us. The apostles looked at Jesus and immediately came to the conclusion that He was some kind of ghost, so He quickly reassured them that this was not so. Just because Christ said He was not a ghost does not automatically mean that they exist. Take the example of my brother's radio that I posted. Just because for a fraction of a second I thought it was a supernatural occurrence does not mean it WAS a supernatural occurrence. Furthermore, you mentioned the story from the Old Testament of the witch summoning a deceased prophet. This is slightly different than what we presently call a ghost, I would call that an apparition. When we think of a ghost we think of a soul who has been "trapped" on earth - that, after death, the soul did not move on. In my opinion that is contrary to our faith. Christ said that everyone is going to face their judgment after death.[/quote]

But why would the Apostles reference something that does not exist? They had to have a reference of some type of "ghost" in order to call Jesus one.

Also, I don't think the argument is that a ghost is someone "trapped on earth" but, rather, one who has already faced judgment, been dealt Purgatory, and their Purgatory is getting more people to pray for them. The saints are constantly speaking about how they see the ghosts of those whom they knew and immediately realized they were asking prayers of that saint.

Incidentally, I never really knew what to believe, in terms of ghosts, until I spoke to an exorcist, that opened my eyes and understanding to a whole other world, a spiritual world, that does, indeed, exist.

[cmotherofpirl]

[color="#0000FF"]I think this list just about covers it:[/color]

To my knowledge there are five different types of hauntings.

1)The first is residual. These are the "ghosts" that go through walls, seem to talk the same paths or do the same things every time they're seen and are oblivious to you. These are not actual spirits. But as the name implies, they're "memories" if you will, from the past, that as strange as it sounds, were "video-taped" by time and space and keeps replaying itself.

2)The second kind are demonic. They can appear as deceased family members or whatever. But they eventual show their true colors by just overall negativity. For example, they'll sometimes try to wear a person down, through depression ect. They will inflict bodily harm, try to cause discord between members of the family. And if they can wear a person down enough to control them, they may try to then actually possess them.

3)The third kind are poltergeist. Sometimes this can be demonic activity, but the prevalent opinion, is that this sort of activity ie objects moving, lights turning off and on, are not caused by any spirit at all, but by a living person (usually troubled).

4)The fourth kind are actually human spirits. Some are evil and can be confused with the demonic. Some are good...you might say...but usually seems to not want to be there, and would rather "move on", but something is holding them back. This would fit into the idea of purgatory. In CS Lewis' The Great Divorce, when souls first arrived in heaven they were prompted by others to let go of their sins, some did, some didn't, some were scared too ect. But until they did, they couldn't "move on". Purgatory may be the state in which souls still attached to this earth, or their sins, or whatever, are not able to "move on" because of these attachments, even though they desperately want to. And it's not until they let go that they are able to "move on".

5) A fifth kind of ghost, are really neither demons, figments, or deceased persons, but are earthly creatures that appear less tangible than we are. This is where stories of fairies and leprechauns ect. originated from. They seem to show some degree of intelligence and can get nasty and play tricks. They usually appear as swarms of light.

[color="#0000FF"]Didn't much think about it til we moved in to our present house, and finally had to get a Francisan priest to come remove our annoying company. My neighbors recently asked about holy water [ they are evangelical fundamentalists - so this was a hoot] for their house.
I think those who dismiss this out of hand are blinding themselves to our truly interesting reality.[/color]

[rkwright]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1815480' date='Mar 24 2009, 11:15 AM']Incidentally, I never really knew what to believe, in terms of ghosts, until I spoke to an exorcist, that opened my eyes and understanding to a whole other world, a spiritual world, that does, indeed, exist.[/quote]

Fr can you share??? Plz Plz Plz

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1815492' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:33 PM']Fr can you share??? Plz Plz Plz [/quote]

I did. In one of my previous posts. The one that I put in the bulletin, as a matter of fact. The Q&A about ghosts.

It was a very enlightening conversation though. He told me how people become possessed, how demons interact with each other, all about ghosts and how to be an instrument for the grace of God.

The guy was amazing and it was definitely a conversation I still remember to this day, and has helped me to form my understanding on those things that the Church has not definitively spoken on, the more speculative stuff, like ghosts.