Ghosts

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='CrossCuT' post='1666201' date='Sep 29 2008, 08:16 AM'][size=1]I was told by a Preist that there are two different kinds of Spirits:

1) Purgatorians whom God allows to come to earth and ask for prayers.
2) Demons which are the bad kinds that possess people and places.
[/size][/quote]

3) The delicious kind that come in a bottle.

[Kitty]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1674774' date='Oct 10 2008, 11:43 PM']For the skeptics RIGHT NOW ON TRAVEL CHANNEL

[url="http://www.travelchannel.com/TV_Shows/Most_Haunted_Live/Webcams"]http://www.travelchannel.com/TV_Shows/Most...ed_Live/Webcams[/url]

They are in Gettysburg and they are live webcams no tampering just a cam see for yourself[/quote]

is someone controlling the cameras at all? Because camera 8 panned slowly to the right to focus on a different part of the room. Creeped me out.

[HollyDolly]

I believe there are spirits or ghosts. What they are people aren't sure. If you get a chance,watch Ghost Hunters on the SCI_FI Channel with the Atlantic Paranormal Society, also known as TAPS. As they mention,there are several kinds of hauntings. One is residual.This is where you might see a ghost walk through say the same wall all the time.Sometime while you are doing a little research on the haunting,you may discover there was once a door there.
It's like a loop of film being replayed over and over, the ghost doesnot react with you.Somehow, this activity is imprinted into the fabric of time,and due to conditions we doon't understand, this cycle of activity begins and is replayed.
There was the famous english battle of the 17th century,I believe it was the Battle of Monmouth.
Anyhow, people saw in the sky, the battle being renacted.Many of the people who participated in it were recognized.Some had died in it, but others were still living.Some how, do to the trauma,the scene was imprinted into the atmosphere or whatever.

Then there are intelligent hauntings in which spirits speak to you and can interact with you. This could be demonic or not.
God sometimes allows our loved ones to come to us to give us a warning of danger, to turn us from diaster and onto the right path.I once in awhile have dreams of my dead parents,momma passing on in 1982,daddy in 1996.They are just dreams in which we go for a drive, or momma and I go shopping, sometimes my brother and sister are there too in the dream.
Whenever I see a redwing blackbird, a meadow lark or a cotton tail rabbit, I feel like momma and daddy are saying hello to me, since those were animals they liked.
I grew up hearing from my dad some of the family ghost stories brought over from Germany.
My dad would have this dream in which he would hear this beautiful woman's voice singing,but never see her face. Whenever he had this dream, someone in the family would pass on, in other words be dead. His mother had this gift,her dream was of a room with a table in it, and on it was a vase of flowers.Also her Aunt Louise also had a death portent dream.

When at the Lizzie Bordon House in Fall River ,Mass,i had the feeling something was toughing my neck,down in the parlor, and up in the maid's room, felt something cold touch my lips.
Very weird. The very fact the bible mentions ghosts, and Christ Himself mentions them should be enough for anyone to believe they are indeed real, else why should Jesus mention them if these spirits didn't exist.

[socalscout]

I love the seasonal Ghost thread. Next is "What are you thankful for" thread and after that is the "Santa good or bad for Christmas" thread and then we get into the Easter Bunny thread.

Just for your info;

I sat in a friend’s house watching TV when his door knob shook and the door opened wide. Thing is they always locked their and I sat next to the open window that gave a full view of the doorstep and I saw no one. He said things like that started happening ever since his dad became missing. We later found out he was murdered. I was 14.

I’m thankful for my wife and kids and friends and family God’s love and the Rosary.

I think Santa is a compliment to Christmas. I do not like those movies that portray Christmas as being endangered if Santa is not around.

I whole heartedly am against the Easter Bunny. Unlike Santa the Easter Bunny is a replacement to the true Easter story not a compliment but I let my kids enjoy it and they know the reason for the day.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1674774' date='Oct 10 2008, 11:43 PM']For the skeptics RIGHT NOW ON TRAVEL CHANNEL

[url="http://www.travelchannel.com/TV_Shows/Most_Haunted_Live/Webcams"]http://www.travelchannel.com/TV_Shows/Most...ed_Live/Webcams[/url]

They are in Gettysburg and they are live webcams no tampering just a cam see for yourself[/quote]

I've gone to Gettysburg once before - or it could've been twice. Regardless, we never saw anything. However, our tour guide was telling the story of a couple of tourists checking out the graveyard, and a whole bunch of civil war soldiers went marching by and crossed a bridge. They were so impressed they went to the "central house" or "museum" or "tour guide central" (lol I really don't know what to call it) and said how great the reinactment was. But they were told that there was no reinactment that day/at that time.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1679176' date='Oct 16 2008, 03:30 PM']I've gone to Gettysburg once before - or it could've been twice. Regardless, we never saw anything. However, our tour guide was telling the story of a couple of tourists checking out the graveyard, and a whole bunch of civil war soldiers went marching by and crossed a bridge. They were so impressed they went to the "central house" or "museum" or "tour guide central" (lol I really don't know what to call it) and said how great the reinactment was. But they were told that there was no reinactment that day/at that time. [/quote]

Creepy!

That sent shivers down my spine!

[uppercut55]

i live in gettysburg. actually just outside the town. but anyway.

i think there is certainly a spiritual restlessness on the battlefeild but i don't know about actual ghosts. What i think is that people see a) demons trying to get them to delve into the paranormal and thus leading to satanic stuff. or b) souls who are in purgatory. i dont know the Chruch's stace onthe last one but i heard it somewhere.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1649319' date='Sep 6 2008, 06:40 PM']I'd have to see a source. I have read some stuff...
Well I'll start off by saying that you can't make a good horro movie based on a true story without stretching the truth. Some do it more than others.
What I heard though, with references (although in all fairness I can't give you any either. ) is that a lot of what was in the movies and book (there was a book, right?) was generally held to be fairly accurate.
Now that I think harder though... hm... Did the man who had lived in the house write a book?
I should stop talking. I don't actually know what I'm talking about. [/quote]

HA!! I found it!

[url="http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4020"]http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4020[/url]

Interesting site, all around. But this is the article that I read that was specific to Amityville

[jeffpugh]

Cow of Shame! Long time, no see!

[HisChildForever]

Maybe we'll see ghosts tonight.

[Theologian in Training]

My Q&A in the bulletin a couple of weeks back. Thought you might enjoy it!

It would seem that, especially during this month, you cannot turn on the TV without seeing some show about some supernatural occurrence, be it a haunting, a possession, or some other show out to prove the existence or non-existence of ghosts or other “paranormal” activity. I must admit that it piqued my interest and so I watched one of those shows. Personally, it seemed like a budget horror flick with a lot of technology, complete with the webcams, high tech listening devices and the like. I pretty much gave up on the show when they broke out the Ouija board, consulted psychics and all the other stuff the Church warns against (CCC 2116). However, I would be lying, if I did not admit that it caused me to wonder what the Church actually teaches with regards to ghosts, and I am sure there are more than a few of you out there who have wondered the same. Well, it turns out the Church itself doesn’t say much, however, there are many great Catholic writers and thinkers who have come up with certain ideas and theories. Let me just stress that before going any further, these are ideas and theories, but, it is clear, they have been well thought out. So, that brings us to our first question.

[b]Do ghosts exist?[/b]

As Jimmy Akin, a great Catholic apologist points out the term “ghost” is German derivative of the Latin “spirit.” Now, we believe in spirits, those are what we call angels and demons, but there is more to it than just that. There is an excellent website that discusses the “7 types of ghosts,” (citation on bottom) yet, before doing so, establishes what we know about spirits, especially in a biblical sense, the entire article is too long to reiterate, but the following are the conclusions he reaches:

1) We know that ghosts do not have flesh and bones. (Luke 24:39)
2) We know that the dead can communicate with the living. (1 Sam 28; Sirach 46:20)
3) We know that at least in some context allowed by God, the dead can be conjured in some fashion. (1 Sam 28)
4) We know that it is possible for the dead to appear on the earth (Matt 72; 1 Sam 28)
5) We know that is may be possible for the dead to not only appear on the earth, but appear to people and talk with them (Luke 16:27-31; 1 Sam 28)
6) We know that it is possible for the living to bi-locate (Rev. 17:3; 21:10; 2 Cor 12:2)
7) We know that it is possible for spirits to communicate in dreams and the person to have a bodily reaction to the visitation (Job 4:15)

Given this, there seems to be ample evidence that indeed ghosts do exist. However, there is a precaution here, and the biggest is how this works with Church teaching.

[b]How does this work with Church teaching?[/b]

We know that when we depart from this world we are instantly judged and from there it is decided where we are to go, Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. Now, the first two places are quite definitive, however, Purgatory is less so, all we know is that it is a place of purgation, a time in which to make ourselves ready and worthy to enter Heaven. So, in this sense, there is no need of “crossing over,” because it has already occurred, however, as Jimmy Akin, Peter Kreeft and others have pointed out, God may allow a person to return to earth to complete that “purgation” by means of soliciting prayers, as an exorcist once explained it to me, or the accounts of may saints have explained, because that person is still too attached to material goods and not ready to let them go or because the person has not yet realized or come to terms with their own death.

Now, granted, this is all conjecture, but also not outside of the realm of possibility. The difficulty, however, is how we reconcile that with malevolent spirits, those known as “poltergeists” which, in German means “noisy spirit.” That is where it gets “spiritually dangerous,” because then you are not dealing with a loved one but a demon, and that is most likely why the Church has not spoken much about the existence or non-existence of ghosts and the spirit world in general.

If you would like to learn more, I highly recommend the books [i]Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Heaven[/i] and [i]Angels and Demons[/i] by Peter Kreeft and the following website from which a I gained a lot of understanding myself
[url="http://www.saint-mike.org/spcdc/library/7ghosts.asp"]http://www.saint-mike.org/spcdc/library/7ghosts.asp[/url]

God bless,

Fr. Brian

[Desert Walker]

In my opinion there are two kinds of "ghosts."

1. Bad spirits (demons and perhaps damned souls but I'm very skeptical about this)
This kind manifest themselves in a great variety of ways. In some cases they will pretend to be a deceased person who is identifiable. In other cases a mere sound without physical cause is heard. Encounters with them, however, are always, on some level, negative (spiritually, emotionally, physically).

2. Good spirits (angels, inhabitants of purgatory, the blessed in Heaven)
This kind also manifest themselves in a great variety of ways. Padre Pio once encountered a deceased brother cleaning the sanctuary because he had been neglectful of this duty in bodily life. Some people have been physically assisted by angels.

Personally I have experienced two instances of a physical effect with a completely unapparent physical cause. Both were shatteringly frightening at the time. Both occurred in my childhood. Both occurred before my house had been blessed. Nothing of the kind has happened since my house was blessed.

I cannot, however, count the number of times that I knew some good spirit had saved me from something bad or had attempted to save me from something bad that happened to me.

[Ash Wednesday]

I think stories of residual hauntings are interesting -- historical events that are replayed time and time again -- but it's something that can be related to science and just an aspect of time and dimension that we haven't gotten our heads around, not something of a spiritual event. So seeing ghost soldiers in battle or a person that appears to "not know their dead" -- would be just something residual and not someone's soul. So they are not really necessarily spiritual in nature. More like the way sound echoes, or a person's warmth is still felt after they get up from a chair.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Ash Wednesday

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

I disagree. I think it would be something of a spiritual nature. I was talking about this recently with the Abbot of the Monastery that runs my college. He said that one could assert that perhaps the souls that one experiences as a ghost could be souls in Purgatory that God allows some people to see in order that we may pray for those specific souls. We experience them in areas that played a large influence in their lives so that our prayers may be more specific. These are what some classify as "benevolent hauntings." "Malignant hauntings" can be demons sent to distract us from God and be just another part of spiritual warfare.

It seems odd to me to assert that these are just echoes of people who lived once. I think that maybe these men had such a influential event in their lives such as Gettysburg or another such event that they become very attached to a specific part of the Earth. I think it might be reasonable to assume that God would allow them to be so attached to a specific place and so as part of Purgatory they have to learn to let go of this part of the world and attach themselves to God instead, and we experience this as what is termed as a "residual haunting" in order that we may pray for them or that graces may be given to them in those events.

[Spamity Calamity]

I have always kind of wondered what Catholicism says about ghosts but this thread seems to show there isnt much to be said about it "officially" I guess. The paranormal is kind of an interest to me I spend a few hours a week reading books on the technical apects of trying to capture evidence of ghosts. Since everybody is putting down their ideas Ill put down mine.

There are demons and angels, spirits that never had a human body to begin with. I think that visitations by them are rare and terrifying to behold if a demon and probably overwhelmingly awesome if an angel. I also believe in the traditional ghost idea of spirits of deceased people stuck on our earthly plane. I dont know why this is the case but I dont see how this has to conflict with Christianity. Maybe Im just being naieve. But why cant a spirit be forced to wander the earthly plane as a form of purgatory? Maybe until they come to some conclusion or something is resolved. I think this might be the case because the majority of EVP's seem to be from people that died less than 200 years ago. This is all speculation of course dont take me seriously on any ot this. After all I have a can of spam as my avatar.

One other thing I wanted to note. I listen to a lot of paranormal podcasts and most of the ghost hunters are not terribly religous. Theyll claim to be "spiritual" but Ive always viewed that as a cop out excuse for their anything goes, pick and choose, store bought new age beliefs. They usually posit a sterotype that christians put all ghostly activity as demons but I dont think thats the case and judging from this thread I think I am correct.