The Poor?

[Nihil Obstat]

What is your personal opinion on the very best way to help the poor that is based on orthodox Church positions?
I've heard distributism mentioned... don't understand it.
but anyway, what is the best way to truly help the financially poor?

[CatherineM]

Jobs, job training, child care, affordable housing.

[cmotherofpirl]

Education, education, education and welfare for those who are not capable of work.

[dairygirl4u2c]

if you start out with the basic premise that everyone deserves a basic cut if they are willing to work etc... and as far as i'm concerned,, the basic cut should be not living in a box but decent unlike hard core conservatives.. then...

i think a pretty important distinction is helping them by the government when the system is fundamentally flawed... v. helping them their private charity.

soem conservatives like to throw it all together, as if it should be all done by charity. some liberals woudl rather have the government do it all. true, charity has the advantage of the person experiencing what it means to help and makes it prsonal and doesn't involve stealing from the rich to give to the poor. but, if the system is fundametally flawed,,, then, it's not so uch stealing from the rich as it is doing what is just.

how do you draw the disctiction? it can be gray sometimes.
if a 20 year old needs a basic operation, but he can't afford it,,, and that's the rule rather than the exception for those cases... then something is fundamentally flawed.
here it's probably something that the gov should fix.

but generally there's many things you'd have to consider in any situation
some basic ideas that should be included in thinking about tehse things:
-increase capitalism, subsidies with copay, loans etc. all solution.
-to any governmental policy, there are various factors that are common: personal responsibility, freedom to fail-which is like responsibility but imporatnt enough for its own, equal access to the basics, subsidiarity, solidarity, incentives, and disencentives.

[Deb]

There are lots of ways, volunteering ones time to organizations that help the poor so they have more financial resources to give to the poor is good. Buying certified fair trade products helps the poor all over the world.
Give generously to your church and direct to missions. Look at everything you spend your money on, find something you really don't need and remove it from your life and give the savings to the poor.
Lack of funds to pay child care is the single biggest obstacle for poor women getting and keeping jobs.

[b]Pope John Paul II on the Poor[/b]



Because of our "love of preference for the poor," we "cannot but embrace the immense multitudes of the hungry, the needy, the homeless, those without medical care and, above all, those without hope of a better future. It is impossible not to take account of the existence of these realities. To ignore them would mean becoming like the 'rich man' who pretended not to know the beggar Lazarus lying at his gate (Luke 16:19-31)."

"Unfortunately, instead of becoming fewer the poor are becoming more numerous, not only in less developed countries but—and this seems no less scandalous—in the more developed ones too. It is necessary to state once more the characteristic principle of Christian social doctrine: The goods of this world are originally meant for all. The right to private property is valid and necessary, but it does not nullify the value of this principle." [b]
[/b]
Encyclical on Social Concerns (1988)

[left]"The Church's love for the poor, which is essential for her and part of her constant tradition. impels her to give attention to a world in which poverty is threatening to assume massive proportions in spite of technological and economic progress. In the countries of the West, different forms of poverty are being experienced by groups which live on the margins of society, by the elderly and the sick, by the victims of consumerism, and even more immediately by so many refugees and migrants."[/left]
"Love for others, and in the first place love for the poor, in whom the Church sees Christ himself, is made concrete in the promotion of justice."


[i]Centesimus Annus[/i] (1991)

[StColette]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1622961' date='Aug 9 2008, 07:05 PM']Jobs, job training, child care, affordable housing.[/quote]


[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1623064' date='Aug 9 2008, 10:04 PM']Education, education, education and welfare for those who are not capable of work.[/quote]

I agree completely with both of these!

[MilesJesu]

Greetings,

When asking what the best way to help the poor, there are [b]two components[/b]. In my opinion, it seems that the first component is often times overlooked or at least, forgotten. The social teaching of the church addresses the [i]second component[/i]- the reality in which poor people find themselves - the hear and now, on earth. We certainly are obligated to assist the poor. There are many examples where Jesus feeds the masses, tells the rich man to give to the poor, and shows Divine compasion. We should follow these examples.

However, this is done in the context of the [i]first component [/i] and should not be separated. The first component involves envangelization. In Mt 11, Jesus mentions the poor in His response to John the Baptist's disciples: "the poor have good news [i]preached [/i]to them." Indeed, Jesus preached the Good News to the poor. In Luke 4, our Lord reads in a reference to Isa, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to [i]preach good news to the poor[/i]." The poor have a special blessing as attested by James 2: "Listen, my beloved brethren. Has not God chosen those who are [i]poor in the world to be rich in faith [/i]and [i]heirs of the kingdom[/i] which he has promised to those who love him?" It seems that any true assistance to the poor, cannot separate this important aspect.

In other words, what do you really give a man if you don't give him Christ as well? If you feed someone and keep them from physically starving but never teach them about Jesus Christ, you have merely prolonged judgement, not helped make them "heirs of the kingdom." We see this concept taught by Peter in Acts 3:

"2 And a man lame from birth was being carried, whom they laid daily at that gate of the temple which is called Beautiful to ask alms of those who entered the temple. 3 Seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, he asked for alms. 4 And Peter directed his gaze at him, with John, and said, "Look at us." 5 And he fixed his attention upon them, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, "[b]I have no silver and gold, but I give you what I have[/b]; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."...
11 While he clung to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the portico called Solomon's, astounded. 12 And when Peter saw it he addressed the people, "Men of Israel, why do you wonder at this, or why do you stare at us, as though by our own power or piety we had made him walk? 13 [b]The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob[/b], the God of our fathers, [b]glorified his servant Jesus[/b], whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. [b]To this we are witnesses[/b]. 16 And [b]his name, by faith in his name, has made this man strong [/b]whom you see and know; and [b]the faith which is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health [/b]in the presence of you all. 17 "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that [b]times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, [/b]

This is just my two cents.

Peace,

MilesJesu

[Deb]

[quote name='MilesJesu' post='1626220' date='Aug 13 2008, 03:27 PM']Greetings,

When asking what the best way to help the poor, there are [b]two components[/b]. In my opinion, it seems that the first component is often times overlooked or at least, forgotten. The social teaching of the church addresses the [i]second component[/i]- the reality in which poor people find themselves - the hear and now, on earth. We certainly are obligated to assist the poor. There are many examples where Jesus feeds the masses, tells the rich man to give to the poor, and shows Divine compasion. We should follow these examples.

However, this is done in the context of the [i]first component [/i]and should not be separated. The first component involves envangelization. In Mt 11, Jesus mentions the poor in His response to John the Baptist's disciples: "the poor have good news [i]preached [/i]to them." Indeed, Jesus preached the Good News to the poor. In Luke 4, our Lord reads in a reference to Isa, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to [i]preach good news to the poor[/i]." The poor have a special blessing as attested by James 2: "Listen, my beloved brethren. Has not God chosen those who are [i]poor in the world to be rich in faith [/i]and [i]heirs of the kingdom[/i] which he has promised to those who love him?" It seems that any true assistance to the poor, cannot separate this important aspect.

In other words, what do you really give a man if you don't give him Christ as well? If you feed someone and keep them from physically starving but never teach them about Jesus Christ, you have merely prolonged judgement, not helped make them "heirs of the kingdom." We see this concept taught by Peter in Acts 3:

"2 And a man lame from birth was being carried, whom they laid daily at that gate of the temple which is called Beautiful to ask alms of those who entered the temple. 3 Seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, he asked for alms. 4 And Peter directed his gaze at him, with John, and said, "Look at us." 5 And he fixed his attention upon them, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, "[b]I have no silver and gold, but I give you what I have[/b]; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."...
11 While he clung to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the portico called Solomon's, astounded. 12 And when Peter saw it he addressed the people, "Men of Israel, why do you wonder at this, or why do you stare at us, as though by our own power or piety we had made him walk? 13 [b]The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob[/b], the God of our fathers, [b]glorified his servant Jesus[/b], whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. [b]To this we are witnesses[/b]. 16 And [b]his name, by faith in his name, has made this man strong [/b]whom you see and know; and [b]the faith which is through Jesus has given the man this perfect health [/b]in the presence of you all. 17 "And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But what God foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that [b]times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, [/b]

This is just my two cents.

Peace,

MilesJesu[/quote]

For a first post I have to say I am very impressed. Nice. Very nice.

[havok579257]

Give them money whenever they ask for it. That's my solution. Its what Jesus tells us to do. If everyone in this world with money gave whenever someone poor needed it, we would not have poor people unless they choose it.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1626299' date='Aug 13 2008, 04:57 PM']Give them money whenever they ask for it. That's my solution. Its what Jesus tells us to do. If everyone in this world with money gave whenever someone poor needed it, we would not have poor people unless they choose it.[/quote]
But shouldn't we do more than just give money? The dignity of a person should also be upheld, and if they have to go begging for money all the time, that doesn't always leave them feeling very dignified. Shouldn't we give them a way to earn that money for themselves?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1626369' date='Aug 13 2008, 06:32 PM']But shouldn't we do more than just give money? The dignity of a person should also be upheld, and if they have to go begging for money all the time, that doesn't always leave them feeling very dignified. Shouldn't we give them a way to earn that money for themselves?[/quote]
Agree.

[havok579257]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1626369' date='Aug 13 2008, 07:32 PM']But shouldn't we do more than just give money? The dignity of a person should also be upheld, and if they have to go begging for money all the time, that doesn't always leave them feeling very dignified. Shouldn't we give them a way to earn that money for themselves?[/quote]


Yeah but they need money first because we all know if somoene goes into a job interview in scruff clothes and not taken a shower in days, no one will hire them.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1626552' date='Aug 14 2008, 06:56 AM']Yeah but they need money first because we all know if somoene goes into a job interview in scruff clothes and not taken a shower in days, no one will hire them.[/quote]

So what you really want is give them a job?

I'm for subsidised jobs with a decent salary. Training on the job, extra courses, and if you've learned enough you can go on to an unsubsidised job. There are so many people who work but stay poor.

That, combined with things like social housing for the lowest incomes, and education, education, education, as was mentioned above

[Selah]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1622961' date='Aug 9 2008, 08:05 PM']Jobs, job training, child care, affordable housing.[/quote]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1623064' date='Aug 9 2008, 10:04 PM']Education, education, education and welfare for those who are not capable of work.[/quote]
Word!