Denver Archbishop Recalls "progressive" Nuns To Obedience To

[Veritas]

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[url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08080806.html"]http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08080806.html[/url]

May his request be effective.

[DiscerningSoul]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1622884' date='Aug 9 2008, 07:14 PM']+

May his request be effective.[/quote]

Ditto

[CatherineM]

I have to deal with one that I wish someone would rein in.

[VeniteAdoremus]

I'm pessimistic about the results of efforts like this

Which doesn't make it less great that this bishop sticks out his neck and says it, though.

[dominicansoul]

It's about time one of our shepherds says it

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1623569' date='Aug 10 2008, 03:55 PM']It's about time one of our shepherds says it[/quote]
Amen!

[jkaands]

I wish that the archbishop might direct his attention more to the SSPX activity in his diocese, where there is a SSPX school and a parish, at which the head of SSPX spoke at length in 2006. Also on his doorstep are two sedevacantist religious orders in Colorado Springs , the Servants of the Holy Family and the Discalced Carmelite nuns.

The author of the article quoted above needs some briefing also. The Enneagram is not occult. It refers to a system of personality analysis, which is very sueful in counseling and in vocational advising. It is similar to the Myers-Briggs. The name refers to the nine basic types, which form a nine-pointed star. I think that it was especially popular in the early years after Vat II , when a lot of nuns wanted to find out more about their own basic personality types. I don't think that it is as popular now among religious orders.

[Maggyie]

My sister has had a spiritual director for a little while, whose direction she does not much like. She is a Sister from what congregation I don't know, and she is really trying to push the Enneagram. She actually just gave my sister a book featuring Fr. Rohr on the topic. It's a pretty creepy book. He talks about being a "redeemed" 3 or 6 or whatever. N.B. this "redemption" does not have anything to do with the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. You are right that it doesn't seem to be actually occult, just weird pseudo-science.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1623865' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:27 AM']I wish that the archbishop might direct his attention more to the SSPX activity in his diocese, where there is a SSPX school and a parish, at which the head of SSPX spoke at length in 2006.[/quote]

Respectfully, is there a reason why he needs to direct his attention more so in another direction? Why cannot his call for obedience be toward both?

Is not the fact that he is calling for obedience among these sisters a good thing?

[quote]Also on his doorstep are two sedevacantist religious orders in Colorado Springs , the Servants of the Holy Family and the Discalced Carmelite nuns.[/quote]

These two groups are not in his Diocese and they have been labeled as "renegade" in their respective Diocese, so they have been 'dealt' with and have been called to obedience. Also, I don't believe they are sedevacantist. They recognize Pope Benedict as the Vicar of Christ, and to my knowledge were disobedient, in that they celebrated Mass in the Extraordinary Form with out the permission of their Bishop the years before the MP.

[quote]The author of the article quoted above needs some briefing also. The Enneagram is not occult. It refers to a system of personality analysis, which is very sueful in counseling and in vocational advising. It is similar to the Myers-Briggs. The name refers to the nine basic types, which form a nine-pointed star. I think that it was especially popular in the early years after Vat II , when a lot of nuns wanted to find out more about their own basic personality types. I don't think that it is as popular now among religious orders.[/quote]

Is there any source that is faithful to what the Church teaches, a website, book, or holy priest that is well known perhaps, that could be held up as proof of the goodness of the book?

[VeniteAdoremus]

The enneagram an sich isn't occult, in that it doesn't have anything to do with evil spirits or something like that. But it is both secular and non-scientific, so why you'd need it for spiritual direction is a bit fuzzy to me. Myers-Briggs has better papers with regards to scientific credibility, although both have the problem that they indicate your self-perceived personality (they illustrate how you [i]think[/i] you are rather than how you really are).

All that aside, I can't but get the feeling that institutions that use the enneagram also tend towards other practices that are secular at best. That's probably why people get a hunch of "occult practices! run! run!" when the thing is mentioned.

And I think bishops should work on both the traditionalist and the overly liberal parts of his flock (whether they agree they're part of the flock or not ), because no SSPX'er would willingly join a church where liberalists are allowed to run free, and the liberals should learn that we're one Church with the more traditional members, too.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1623893' date='Aug 11 2008, 05:46 AM']And I think bishops should work on both the traditionalist and the overly liberal parts of his flock (whether they agree they're part of the flock or not ), because no SSPX'er would willingly join a church where liberalists are allowed to run free, and the liberals should learn that we're one Church with the more traditional members, too.[/quote]

Yes, absolutely on that they both should be encouraged to be obedient to all the church teaches.

Both extremes need to realize, that like Fr. Hardon writes, "Extremist beliefs of any sort are always dangerous and often fatal to the institution with which they are associated. The either/or fallacy is always just that—a meretricious assignment of validity to one point of view with the attendant obliteration of any counter system. This blindness lends itself to a bigotry quite often found in social and political systems, but no such taint should ever be allowed to mar our religious and ethical behaviors."

Thanks for the info on the book.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1623865' date='Aug 10 2008, 11:27 PM']I wish that the archbishop might direct his attention more to the SSPX activity in his diocese, where there is a SSPX school and a parish, at which the head of SSPX spoke at length in 2006. Also on his doorstep are two sedevacantist religious orders in Colorado Springs , the Servants of the Holy Family and the Discalced Carmelite nuns.

The author of the article quoted above needs some briefing also. The Enneagram is not occult. It refers to a system of personality analysis, which is very sueful in counseling and in vocational advising. It is similar to the Myers-Briggs. The name refers to the nine basic types, which form a nine-pointed star. I think that it was especially popular in the early years after Vat II , when a lot of nuns wanted to find out more about their own basic personality types. I don't think that it is as popular now among religious orders.[/quote]

Maybe he's already doing a lot to get the people who assist at SSPX Masses to assist at Masses not said by priests adhering to a schism. After alll there is a thriving FSSP church in his diocese (which he would have had to allow when it was founded). BTW, his Auxiliary did spend two years saying the Extraordinary Form of the Mass every other week for [i]my[/i] my Extraordinary Form community and is going to say a Pontifical High Mass at the FSSP church there. Maybe positive things like these help people who assist at SSPX Masses assist at Masses said by priests who are in full communion with the Holy Father more than taking aggressive action against them (which he couldn't do any better than he could do with the Greek Orthodox since the SSPX priests at least in practice don't accept his authority.)

Not to mention the fact that those nuns seem downright heretical, while SSPX priests don't usually deny any dogma but only (not that denying any teaching of the Church is a light matter) deny certain doctrines (e.g. religious liberty, episcopal collegiality, etc.)

[ruso]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1622884' date='Aug 10 2008, 01:14 AM']+

[url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08080806.html"]http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08080806.html[/url]

May his request be effective.[/quote]
Is LCWR which was chaired by Joan Chittister?. The books of she and other "progressive", are making a lot of damage in Spain, someone took his books even comtemplative convents, as if it were fully Catholics.

Now there are contemplative Dominican nuns, Carmelites and other orders, talked about social justice and access of women to the priesthood.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1624993' date='Aug 12 2008, 02:49 AM']Maybe he's already doing a lot to get the people who assist at SSPX Masses to assist at Masses not said by priests adhering to a schism. After alll there is a thriving FSSP church in his diocese (which he would have had to allow when it was founded). BTW, his Auxiliary did spend two years saying the Extraordinary Form of the Mass every other week for [i]my[/i] my Extraordinary Form community and is going to say a Pontifical High Mass at the FSSP church there. Maybe positive things like these help people who assist at SSPX Masses assist at Masses said by priests who are in full communion with the Holy Father more than taking aggressive action against them (which he couldn't do any better than he could do with the Greek Orthodox since the SSPX priests at least in practice don't accept his authority.)

Not to mention the fact that those nuns seem downright heretical, while SSPX priests don't usually deny any dogma but only (not that denying any teaching of the Church is a light matter) deny certain doctrines (e.g. religious liberty, episcopal collegiality, etc.)[/quote]

Thank you for posting this. I had not known of his efforts to call the SSPX into obedience and bring the faithful back to a Mass that is valid and whose priests are in full communion. I think it is wonderful.

It does seem like he is calling both to obedience, love, and acceptance of all the Church teaches. There doesn't seem to be a need for him to be directing his attention anywhere else, as he has and is calling the opposite extreme to obedience to the Church as well.

Edited August 13, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria