Masturbation Always A Mortal Sin?

[havok579257]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1624282' date='Aug 11 2008, 03:06 PM']That'd be fine and good, but the Catechism says otherwise. Teenage boys lack maturity and the onslaught of hormones greatly magnifies the temptations they face at school, from media, and through peer pressure. Much of it is new to this current generation. The point is simply to provide examples of real life situations that affect the criteria for mortal sin. We should be in agreement that masturbation is always sinful and grave matter. It must be commited with full knowledge and free will to be a mortal sin.
Wow... this whole thread has been debating this exact scenario. You need to find a felony case that rested entirely on a semen sample to give that argument any validity. Besides that, no court of law should require a suspect to violate their religious beliefs. They would have to find another way to prove guilt.[/quote]


Well considering this is a DEBATE board which deals in many hypotheticals, that's what I gave. I personally don't know if their is a case or not, I am not going to be bothered to spend hours searching for it. Also the courts do have the right to violate someone's religious beliefs if they deem the belief to be counteractive to fair justice. Cause people could and have tried everything saying its against their religion to give blood samples, urine samples, DNA samples and so on and so on. It all depends on what the law deems acceptable religious beliefs and if its counteractive to fair justice.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624365' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:33 PM']Actually some women have to take the birth control pill for medical reasons. Women who have PCOS for example.[/quote]

That is what I just said.

What I also said was that [b]this version[/b] of the birth control pill does not have the proper "dose" to act as a contraceptive, it is strictly designed to act as a type of medicine. Likewise, not every woman who takes the "birth control version" of the pill receives medicinal benefits from it.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624370' date='Aug 11 2008, 02:38 PM']Well considering this is a DEBATE board which deals in many hypotheticals, that's what I gave.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
actually, you're in Open Mic, which technically speaking is not the Debate Table.

but, it's getting moved to the Debate Table.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1624375' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:41 PM']+J.M.J.+
actually, you're in Open Mic, which technically speaking is not the Debate Table.

but, it's getting moved to the Debate Table. [/quote]


Well seeing as I could see into the future, I knew it would eventually get moved to the debate board.

[havok579257]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1624372' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:40 PM']That is what I just said.

What I also said was that [b]this version[/b] of the birth control pill does not have the proper "dose" to act as a contraceptive, it is strictly designed to act as a type of medicine. Likewise, not every woman who takes the "birth control version" of the pill receives medicinal benefits from it.[/quote]


Actually that's not always the case. I have first hand experience here. Some woman are give the pill which has the same dose to stop pregnancy as women who take it for a contraceptive.

Very true on the second point. Although I think my first point is on par for a man who has to give a semen sample for medical reasons. It is ok as long as its for medical reasons.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1624372' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:40 PM']That is what I just said.

What I also said was that [b]this version[/b] of the birth control pill does not have the proper "dose" to act as a contraceptive, it is strictly designed to act as a type of medicine. Likewise, not every woman who takes the "birth control version" of the pill receives medicinal benefits from it.[/quote]

However, these do still have many side-effects, which I do not at this time have the time to research. I know that for every medical purpose that the pill has been prescribed for, there are other medications to treat those maladies.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624393' date='Aug 11 2008, 02:53 PM']Well seeing as I could see into the future, I knew it would eventually get moved to the debate board. [/quote]
+J.M.J.+
lol

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624397' date='Aug 11 2008, 04:56 PM']Very true on the second point. Although I think my first point is on par for a man who has to give a semen sample for medical reasons. It is ok as long as its for medical reasons.[/quote]

The only thing that is wrong with "giving semen" for medical or other reasons is the method in which it is obtained. Other methods exist which do not require sin, and therefore those other options are morally preferred. PM me if you have questions as to how this can be done, or read through the entirety of this topic, looking for my posts.

[havok579257]

[quote name='mommas_boy' post='1624409' date='Aug 11 2008, 05:05 PM']The only thing that is wrong with "giving semen" for medical or other reasons is the method in which it is obtained. Other methods exist which do not require sin, and therefore those other options are morally preferred. PM me if you have questions as to how this can be done, or read through the entirety of this topic, looking for my posts.[/quote]


Well I read through but most of the reasons dealt with a married man. Obviously the condom would not work on a single man. And to the syringe thing, all I can say is owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624397' date='Aug 11 2008, 03:56 PM']Actually that's not always the case. I have first hand experience here. Some woman are give the pill which has the same dose to stop pregnancy as women who take it for a contraceptive.

Very true on the second point. Although I think my first point is on par for a man who has to give a semen sample for medical reasons. It is ok as long as its for medical reasons.[/quote]

Experience of it medicinally? And it is pretty effective contraception? And you're against NFP, right? Just wondering.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='prose' post='1624105' date='Aug 11 2008, 12:27 PM']I think that by giving the excuse that one's hormones are making one frisky, therefore they are less culpable is ridiculous.

Teenage boys are just as responsible for their actions as grown men. If we start thinking in this way, then ANY sin becomes lessened.

Yes, it is difficult, but it is important to point out that confession is always available. Forgiveness is always available. Even if you repeat the sin a million times. It is still a sin. Even if it is "habitual" it is still a sin. If these things are problems, then confession should be just as much of a habit. Period.[/quote]

While I don't disagree with you, Prose, I have known priests to say that younger people are less culpable. And just a reminder, women aren't immune to these sins.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624413' date='Aug 11 2008, 05:07 PM']Well I read through but most of the reasons dealt with a married man. Obviously the condom would not work on a single man. And to the syringe thing, all I can say is owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...[/quote]

Agreed, but do you prefer pain or mortal sin?

Also, condom + waiting for an involuntary emission *might* work.

[havok579257]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1624419' date='Aug 11 2008, 05:11 PM']Experience of it medicinally? And it is pretty effective contraception? And you're against NFP, right? Just wondering.[/quote]


I think NFP is abused by people and it is a form of contraceptive in my eyes. Its another form of using a method to avoid children. I would have no problem with NFP if the church didn't say everytime we have sex, we need to be open to life. Avoiding sex just for the sole purpose of avoiding the possibility of childbirth is a contraceptive in my eyes.

Yes, my wife had PCOS and the doctor put her on birth control. Until she was 16 y/o my wife never had a single period. The doctor put her on birth control in hopes that being on it would cause her body to get used to having a period and eventually when taken off of it, her body would create her won periods. Her parents were strongly against going on the pill as they are very religious. After researching things and speaking to doctors, they disocovered this would be her best chance at forming her own periods. After we got married, I talked to her doctor and did my own research and this was the most effective treatment for my wife. So yes, I have personal experience in this instance.

the pill is like 97% effective. Not full proof, but just about.

[havok579257]

[quote name='mommas_boy' post='1624496' date='Aug 11 2008, 06:10 PM']Agreed, but do you prefer pain or mortal sin?

Also, condom + waiting for an involuntary emission *might* work.[/quote]

See, I think you are going to extremes here. I mean if you say, as long as their is another way to get semen from a man than masturbation it must be done, or eles the man comits a mortal sin. There is all forms of ways such as electro shock and other more graphic means of getting a man's semen. The thing is though, all those things have the potentila risks to cause damage to the male sex organ. So then the question is, at what % of risk does it mean you can do other things to provide a sample.


The involuntary emissions do not always work, its only more likely in younger men. Men in their 20's, 30's, 40's and so on may never experience this. Also would you really want to leave serious medical issues up to chance and just hope something happens. I wouldn't.

[lilac_angel]

They could theoretically sedate him or put him under anasthezia and stimulate him, therefore making it a 100% medical procedure he would not be conscious during.

Not that I know if that would work.

Edited August 11, 2008 by lilac_angel