Masturbation Always A Mortal Sin?

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1622360' date='Aug 9 2008, 04:09 AM']If the DNA specimen found on the scene was contaminated to the point that all that could be accurately assured was blood type that would hardly seem like enough evidence to convict. It's common knowledge that many people have the same blood type, and I highly doubt any court in the United States would hand over a conviction, especially for the death penalty based on that alone. It's called "reasonable doubt". We all know this.[/quote]

Agreed, conviction based solely on bloodtype is not enough. There was likely other circumstantial evidence in this situation. Further, you missed the point of the exercise -- to examine morality under pressure.

[Veritas]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1622363' date='Aug 9 2008, 03:24 AM']I'm curious if you could provide an infallible source for your claim that masturbation can never be a venial sin, or did you renounce your position later? If you still hold it, I would like to see something. Few sources out there are more reliable the CCC.[/quote]

+

You're absolutely right. My claim has stayed the same: objectively, always mortal. However, the lessening of culpability can make it venial. I actually went to find my catechism last night to provide the #, but I just moved (out of my office) and I cannot find it! Anyone else have theirs handy?

[Justin86]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1622851' date='Aug 10 2008, 06:27 AM']+

You're absolutely right. My claim has stayed the same: objectively, always mortal. However, the lessening of culpability can make it venial.[/quote]
Ok, I find this position rather confusing.

[mortify]

Yes, it's always a sin.

[mommas_boy]

Veritas, thoughts on the situation?

I'm beginning to think that the end still doesn't justify the means. Should the accused person accept his death as martyrdom for his faith?

[Justin86]

The end NEVER justifies the means, as I have always been taught.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1621291' date='Aug 8 2008, 11:32 AM']If a man is having to produce a sample for a doctor, then obviously that isn't a mortal sin. If you are dealing with a youngster who doesn't know any differently, or a person that doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what they are doing, then again I couldn't see that as a mortal sin.[/quote]
Actually, if a man is having to produce a sample for a doctor, he still commits a sin if he uses sinful means (porn, masturbation) to do it. Since that's the only way I've ever heard of any doctor doing it, I'm guessing that's the way it's done in most cases (though I have heard of other ways of getting a sperm count that strike me as moral, albeit awkward).

The ends don't justify the means.

Anyway, the answer to the original question is simply that mortal sin requires certain things (knowledge, grave matter, free choice). The CCC is trying to point out that masturbation can be an addiction, that some may not realize it's wrong, etc. In essence, it is objectively a mortal sin, but it is not necessarily a mortal sin on the subjective level, depending on mitigating factors (however, one cannot pretend to be ignorant or helpless and claim that as a defense).

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1623315' date='Aug 10 2008, 06:23 AM']The end NEVER justifies the means, as I have always been taught.[/quote]
unless it's torture.

[mortify]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1623391' date='Aug 10 2008, 09:33 AM']unless it's torture.

[/quote]

LOL

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1622851' date='Aug 9 2008, 06:27 PM']+

You're absolutely right. My claim has stayed the same: objectively, always mortal. However, the lessening of culpability can make it venial. I actually went to find my catechism last night to provide the #, but I just moved (out of my office) and I cannot find it! Anyone else have theirs handy?[/quote]

Justin quoted the relevant paragraph to start this whole discussion, which begs the question... why is there a discussion? This whole thread has just been speculation on whether some incredibly rare and unusual scenarios would make the act sinful or not. We know it's grave matter, but there are two more qualifications to make it mortal sin. So, the answer to Justin's question in the original post is, no, it is always grave matter, but not always mortal sin. That's what the Catechism is explaining.

While we're at it, how about a thread on all the possibilities that could make abortion a venial sin?

My two cents is, if you're on trial for anything that would involve a semen sample, refusing to provide the sample for religious beliefs would be a pretty good defense. Of course, that's assuming the rest of your life bears witness to a fruitful faith.

Edited August 11, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[prose]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1622503' date='Aug 9 2008, 10:57 AM']Addiction, force of habit, and state in life can also affect one's culpability. Example being a teenager struggling, despite one's best efforts, against increased hormonal flux.[/quote]

I think that by giving the excuse that one's hormones are making one frisky, therefore they are less culpable is ridiculous.

Teenage boys are just as responsible for their actions as grown men. If we start thinking in this way, then ANY sin becomes lessened.

Yes, it is difficult, but it is important to point out that confession is always available. Forgiveness is always available. Even if you repeat the sin a million times. It is still a sin. Even if it is "habitual" it is still a sin. If these things are problems, then confession should be just as much of a habit. Period.

[havok579257]

Actually I got to think masturbation is not always a sin. An example would be in the case of a trial and someone needs to give a sample to clear them or refuse and risk being imprision for years. Do you really think God would want an innocent man in jail for a crime he did not commit when the problem could easily be recitifed.

Same with a man who needs to give a sample for a doctor. Cause the man is not doing it for personal issues, he is doing it for medical reasons. Also the condom thing does not work on men who are single and other instances.

I look at this similar to the pill. The pill is ok in women who need it for medical problems. It is against teaching to use it as a contraceptive but if its for medical reasons then its ok. Even though it is a contraceptive.

[HisChildForever]

[quote]I look at this similar to the pill. The pill is ok in women who need it for medical problems. It is against teaching to use it as a contraceptive but if its for medical reasons then its ok. Even though it is a contraceptive.[/quote]

Actually, the birth control pill taken for contraceptive reasons is not the same as the "birth control" pill taken for medical reasons. If a woman is taking the medical version and has sex, there's a 100% chance of pregnancy.

A girl in this situation (at my old school) explained it to me.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='prose' post='1624105' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:27 PM']I think that by giving the excuse that one's hormones are making one frisky, therefore they are less culpable is ridiculous.

Teenage boys are just as responsible for their actions as grown men. If we start thinking in this way, then ANY sin becomes lessened.[/quote]

That'd be fine and good, but the Catechism says otherwise. Teenage boys lack maturity and the onslaught of hormones greatly magnifies the temptations they face at school, from media, and through peer pressure. Much of it is new to this current generation. The point is simply to provide examples of real life situations that affect the criteria for mortal sin. We should be in agreement that masturbation is always sinful and grave matter. It must be commited with full knowledge and free will to be a mortal sin.

[quote name='havok579257' post='1624120' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:41 PM']Actually I got to think masturbation is not always a sin. An example would be in the case of a trial and someone needs to give a sample to clear them or refuse and risk being imprision for years. Do you really think God would want an innocent man in jail for a crime he did not commit when the problem could easily be recitifed.

Same with a man who needs to give a sample for a doctor. Cause the man is not doing it for personal issues, he is doing it for medical reasons. Also the condom thing does not work on men who are single and other instances.[/quote]

Wow... this whole thread has been debating this exact scenario. You need to find a felony case that rested entirely on a semen sample to give that argument any validity. Besides that, no court of law should require a suspect to violate their religious beliefs. They would have to find another way to prove guilt.

Edited August 11, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[havok579257]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1624271' date='Aug 11 2008, 02:54 PM']Actually, the birth control pill taken for contraceptive reasons is not the same as the "birth control" pill taken for medical reasons. If a woman is taking the medical version and has sex, there's a 100% chance of pregnancy.

A girl in this situation (at my old school) explained it to me.[/quote]


Actually some women have to take the birth control pill for medical reasons. Women who have PCOS for example.