Affirmative Action

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1632407' date='Aug 19 2008, 11:59 PM']The funny thing is...
a lot of people would see those stats and use them to show that affirmative action is needed more than ever.[/quote]

I don't see how so....


The way I see it, there is no way we can say something is needed more when the amount we have already isn't helping--and, some could argue, is only making it worse. It appears that giving people hand-outs and a free ride doesn't actually make them more successful or better citizens. As we pointed out earlier, those who come to this country and start with nothing, who have to really struggle with no assistance to fall back on, THEY are the ones who become successful members of society. So, one could argue that AA is the reason Black Americans are no better off today than 40 years ago.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1632555' date='Aug 20 2008, 10:27 AM']I don't see how so....


The way I see it, there is no way we can say something is needed more when the amount we have already isn't helping--and, some could argue, is only making it worse. It appears that giving people hand-outs and a free ride doesn't actually make them more successful or better citizens. As we pointed out earlier, those who come to this country and start with nothing, who have to really struggle with no assistance to fall back on, THEY are the ones who become successful members of society. So, one could argue that AA is the reason Black Americans are no better off today than 40 years ago.[/quote]
Well, you could argue that, but the people dead set on continuing hand-outs and things such as AA will argue what NO was saying they might. Because obviously, if things haven't improved, it means we haven't given them ENOUGH!

[CatherineM]

I've heard lots of arguments about AA, and about all the stats that Madame quoted. What really puzzles me is why when distinguished/respected black men speak publicly that young black men need to take care of the children they conceive, they get attacked? It's obvious to anyone dealing with the societal ills in the African American community, that having no father in the home, leads to numerous problems. I can understand someone like me talking about it getting jumped on, but when someone like Bill Cosby says it, he also gets condemned.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1633040' date='Aug 20 2008, 06:38 PM']I've heard lots of arguments about AA, and about all the stats that Madame quoted. What really puzzles me is why when distinguished/respected black men speak publicly that young black men need to take care of the children they conceive, they get attacked? It's obvious to anyone dealing with the societal ills in the African American community, that having no father in the home, leads to numerous problems. I can understand someone like me talking about it getting jumped on, but when someone like Bill Cosby says it, he also gets condemned.[/quote]

It's not just challenging Blacks on their poor social values that provokes attacks. It's also challenging them on their poor educational levels and their rampant inability to speak and write the English language properly. Bill Cosby was booed off the stage for pointing out that Blacks do themselves an injustice by sounding and acting uneducated.

[picchick]

Thank you Madame V. I appreciate it. It will help me in the future

Meg

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1632555' date='Aug 20 2008, 09:27 AM']I don't see how so....


The way I see it, there is no way we can say something is needed more when the amount we have already isn't helping--and, some could argue, is only making it worse. It appears that giving people hand-outs and a free ride doesn't actually make them more successful or better citizens. As we pointed out earlier, those who come to this country and start with nothing, who have to really struggle with no assistance to fall back on, THEY are the ones who become successful members of society. So, one could argue that AA is the reason Black Americans are no better off today than 40 years ago.[/quote]
Um... I don't know if you misunderstood me or something. That's basically what I said. At least I was agreeing with that.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1633359' date='Aug 21 2008, 01:50 AM']Um... I don't know if you misunderstood me or something. That's basically what I said. At least I was agreeing with that.[/quote]


It's called "a conversation". I was only adding my thoughts. It wasn't a disagreement with anything you said.

People need to grasp this concept. I've seen more than a few people reply to someone's comment only to have the original poster fire back with "you must not have read what I wrote" or some such thing. It's called conversating. It's where you give and take ideas. That's what we're doing here.

[Maggyie]

I am against Affirmative Action, too. However to be fair the situation for European immigrants back in days of old was quite different. There was a whole political machine that absorbed new immigrants, found them work and provided a mechanism for addressing problems. There was also the element of hope - European immigrants saw a future for themselves beyond the ghetto and this provided the motivation to keep working and saving. I know for many inner-city blacks the generational poverty and reliance on the government has created a crushing sense of "this is what life is, it is never going to get better, there is no way out of the ghetto."

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1634073' date='Aug 21 2008, 09:22 PM']It's called "a conversation". I was only adding my thoughts. It wasn't a disagreement with anything you said.

People need to grasp this concept. I've seen more than a few people reply to someone's comment only to have the original poster fire back with "you must not have read what I wrote" or some such thing. It's called conversating. It's where you give and take ideas. That's what we're doing here.[/quote]
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that was what you were getting at.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1634073' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:22 PM']It's called "a conversation". I was only adding my thoughts. It wasn't a disagreement with anything you said.

People need to grasp this concept. I've seen more than a few people reply to someone's comment only to have the original poster fire back with "you must not have read what I wrote" or some such thing. It's called conversating. It's where you give and take ideas. That's what we're doing here.[/quote]
Is conversating an actual word? I always thought it was just conversing?

[picchick]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1635279' date='Aug 22 2008, 11:27 PM']Is conversating an actual word? I always thought it was just conversing?[/quote]


Knowing me I would probably say conversating....

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1635279' date='Aug 22 2008, 10:27 PM']Is conversating an actual word? I always thought it was just conversing?[/quote]


Well, [u]conversate[/u] is a real word, so I assumed conversating would be. Conversing is more commonly used, that's true.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1621313' date='Aug 8 2008, 11:50 AM']There was a time where it was necessary to equal things up, but that time has passed.[/quote]

I agree. I can handle it if it is used as a tie-breaker between two equallly or similarly qualiifed applicants, or if the position itself requires dealing with a minority community and it is decided that a minority is best suited for the job, but no further. It should NEVER be used to hire or promote unqualified people over more qualified people, ESPECIALLY IN SENSITIVE PUBLIC SAFETY / LIFE-OR-DEATH JOBS. In Chicago, there is a LOT of politics and racial tension over hiring and promotions on the police and fire departments, and I have heard of periods of several years for certain hiring or promotion exams for the CPD and/or CFD.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Norseman82

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1636778' date='Aug 24 2008, 03:53 PM']I agree. I can handle it if it is used as a tie-breaker between two equallly or similarly qualiifed applicants, or if the position itself requires dealing with a minority community and it is decided that a minority is best suited for the job, but no further. It should NEVER be used to hire or promote unqualified people over more qualified people, ESPECIALLY IN SENSITIVE PUBLIC SAFETY / LIFE-OR-DEATH JOBS. In Chicago, there is a LOT of politics and racial tension over hiring and promotions on the police and fire departments, and I have heard of periods of several years for certain hiring or promotion exams for the CPD and/or CFD.[/quote]
Oh yea, that's right. Don't some police forces openly have 'quotas' or something like that? Or government jobs.