Cam42 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 K, If priests are to make a promise of obedience at ordination to their bishops, then why do so many not follow the Liturgical Laws that are put forth by the Church? If being a bishop is "the fullness of the priesthood," why are they not holding the priests they shepherd more accountable, by doing what the Holy Father (their shepherd) asks them to with regard to the Liturgy? If the faithful are not being catechized properly, why are they not asking for it? I have one answer for these questions formulated in my head, but I want to see what everyone else thinks. Let's not forget, "Do the red, say the black." It is that simple, but why do priests and bishops fall short of this very simple premise? And by the way, this extends beyond the Ordinary form, there are many priests who don't say the Extraordinary form properly either. So, I am not just picking on the "libs." but am hoping for someone to give an answer that I have not thought of..... BTW, take off your gloves if you want, I haven't been involved in a good "donnybruck" in a very long time....and I won't get offended unless you come with the ad hominem, then look out..... Have fun answering these questions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 [quote name='Cam42' post='1618878' date='Aug 6 2008, 01:46 AM']If priests are to make a promise of obedience at ordination to their bishops, then why do so many not follow the Liturgical Laws that are put forth by the Church?[/quote] Asking myself the same question. So I really don't have an answer to that one. [quote]If being a bishop is "the fullness of the priesthood," why are they not holding the priests they shepherd more accountable, by doing what the Holy Father (their shepherd) asks them to with regard to the Liturgy?[/quote] I believe many of them are afraid of rocking the boat so to speak, but I definitely don't believe this should be done in a way that would ignore the issues going on in certain parishes. Also, I believe some new bishops are afraid of making too many changes too early on. They are observing first and picking the particular fights that they see need to be addressed immediately. I mean, a Bishop is more likely to go after a priest who is messing with the words of Consecration then go after a priest that allows his parish to hold hands during the Our Father. One is by far a great offense then the other. Both bad yes, but you have to pick your battles. [quote]If the faithful are not being catechized properly, why are they not asking for it?[/quote] Luckily, our new Bishop is very aggressive on this it seems. His article in our Catholic magazine for the diocese addresses this issue, mostly in regard to children and Catechists. He is calling for all who teach are Catechists for the diocese to take foundations courses at least through a college program for Theology ran here in our diocese. [quote]Let's not forget, "Do the red, say the black." It is that simple, but why do priests and bishops fall short of this very simple premise?[/quote] Sadly, because a lot of them fell victim to some bad Theological training during certain periods of time. I've been around several priests that were taught during the 60s and 70s that are wishy washy on Liturgical things as well as Church teachings because of the damage inflicted upon our seminaries during that time period. btw Andy it is wonderful to have you back with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 +J.M.J.+ first off, hi Cam! [quote name='Cam42' post='1618878' date='Aug 5 2008, 11:46 PM']If priests are to make a promise of obedience at ordination to their bishops, then why do so many not follow the Liturgical Laws that are put forth by the Church?[/quote] because their pride is in the way? because so many of them are "learned" in their own minds (by colleges that don't teach the faith) that they think that following the bishop is an antiquated idea and that they know better than the bishop? just thinking aloud. oh, and i would also say that some priests are waiting for a 'go-ahead' from their bishop so that they can 'do the red, say the black' so that if any parishioners get upset, the bishop has their back. [quote name='Cam42' post='1618878' date='Aug 5 2008, 11:46 PM']If being a bishop is "the fullness of the priesthood," why are they not holding the priests they shepherd more accountable, by doing what the Holy Father (their shepherd) asks them to with regard to the Liturgy?[/quote]because flat out, bishops are afraid. afraid of 1. the priests will quit (i know of a diocese that the majority of the priests said if the bishop implemented the GIRM or RS that they would all retire and leave the diocese in the lurch), and 2. that the people will cause an uproar, and pull their money out of the church, thus leaving the diocese in a poor financial state. [quote name='Cam42' post='1618878' date='Aug 5 2008, 11:46 PM']If the faithful are not being catechized properly, why are they not asking for it?[/quote]because the faithful don't want to be. in a way, i truly believe that. they don't want to be challenged, they don't want to learn, they want to sit back and 'go along for the ride'. [quote name='Cam42' post='1618878' date='Aug 5 2008, 11:46 PM']Let's not forget, "Do the red, say the black." It is that simple, but why do priests and bishops fall short of this very simple premise? And by the way, this extends beyond the Ordinary form, there are many priests who don't say the Extraordinary form properly either. So, I am not just picking on the "libs." but am hoping for someone to give an answer that I have not thought of.....[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 simple answer: pride, cowardice, and/or ignorance. with an emphasis more on the pride and cowardice than on the ignorance for bishops as they should definitely know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted August 8, 2008 Author Share Posted August 8, 2008 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1619325' date='Aug 6 2008, 11:58 AM']simple answer: pride, cowardice, and/or ignorance. with an emphasis more on the pride and cowardice than on the ignorance for bishops as they should definitely know better.[/quote] [size=7]P-R-I-D-E[/size] That is the answer. Plain and simple. Every priest knows that they are not to change the Liturgy. That is an age old rule. I spoke with a "60s priest" today who said that the Church can change the way that we say Mass, but I am going to still say Mass according to the books that I have, because since I am retired, no one is looking over my back..... I guess he forgot about his guardian angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 He must have forgotten about God too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 They have forgotten the phrase " be not afraid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1218155135' post='1620781'] [size=7]P-R-I-D-E[/size] That is the answer. Plain and simple. Every priest knows that they are not to change the Liturgy. That is an age old rule. I spoke with a "60s priest" today who said that the Church can change the way that we say Mass, but I am going to still say Mass according to the books that I have, because since I am retired, no one is looking over my back..... I guess he forgot about his guardian angel. [/quote] Too common these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1296018242' post='2204459'] Too common these days. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Even though this is an old thread, it is still a very timely topic. My guess would be that when there is a labor shortage, you tend to let your employees steal paperclips. That's easier than trying to find a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 May God have mercy on their souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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