Is It Safe To Be A Liberal?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Deb' post='1616964' date='Aug 4 2008, 10:37 AM']Suffice to say that conservatives will use this article to trash so called liberals over one newspaper article.
This tragedy was caused by one mentally ill man and no one is responsible for his behavior. One does have to ask however, how many well known conservative radio commentators do not come off as gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers? If people get on the air and in print with their hate filled rhetoric, it will eventually have consequences, especially in a country where most people live by tv and radio sound bites.
To turn this around to trash liberals is just the expected knee jerk reaction from conservatives who dance with glee for a reason to do so.[/quote]
Actually, three op-eds were quoted in that article, and there is a general pattern of double-standard in the media when talking about this sort of thing. I remember lots of this "blame Rush" stuff going around after the Oklahoma City bombings in the '90s, which was absolutely ridiculous.

And I've personally heard very few conservative commentators who actually come off as "gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers." (And, personally, I have nothing against gun-toting, but that is hardly equivalent to being a hate-filled murderer, and I'm not really sure how many conservative pundits tote guns for that matter. Not every one for second-amendment rights is some crazed gun-slinger.)

[quote]So, before I get jumped on this, books found in the shooters home were books written by conservative media personalities. (Savage, Hannity and O'Reilly)
If people are going to go nationwide with comments like, "We've got a bulls-eye painted on Pelosi's bit jovial laughing eye." (Melanie Morgan) or "wishing death to all gay people" and "a solution to the illegal immigration problem, let all Latinos fast until they starve themselves to death," (Michale Savage) or "any member of congress who votes in favor of citizenship for an illegal alien will be declared a domestic enemy and will be considered a legitimate target for assassination." (Hal Turner)
I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives.[/quote]
Have you even actually listened to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter, or any of these other people, other than a few out-of-context and dubious quotes from a liberal source?

Though I haven't for some time, I used to listen to Rush fairly regularly in the '90s, and I've never heard him say anything remotely "hate-filled." If anything, I'd say he's too much of a softy! In fact, I've read some hard-core "paleo-cons" accuse him of being a "purveyor of liberal mush."
I've actually met Anne Coulter, and she's a nice enough lady. Her rhetoric can get a little fiesty, but I'd agree with most of her points about the loony left. Most of what you're quoting sounds like tongue-in-cheek humor to make a point. I've heard much worse from left-leaning "shock jocks, " yet the media rarely calls for them to be silenced.

As for your comment, "I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives," if that same comment were made by a conservative about some liberals, you'd probably decry it as an example of ignorance and hate!

And Sean Hannity isn't really even all that conservative, much less a hate-spewing murderous extremist!

The fact that [i]one[/i] killer happened to have books by Hannity and Savage hardly proves that those commentators [i]cause[/i] violence. I'm sure people who read or listen to conservative commentators are statistically no more violent than the rest of the population. One could probably make a much more convincing case that most killers also listen to rock or rap music, watch Hollywood movies or tv shows, or play video games. I'm sure a number that read even have books by left-wing authors in their bookshelves. (I'm not saying necessarily that any of these things causes murderous violence - simply pointing out the absurdity of this methodology.)

[quote]When people like this are the ones constantly in the limelight and when they boast of being conservative (and they do us no service when they refer to themselves as Christians) and then spew hate filled rhetoric everywhere, why would anyone be surprised that shootings like this would not come back to be laid at their door?

Look at it this way. Should not judge all people of Muslim faith based on the fundamentalists? No. Should all conservatives be judged based on those who are hate filled and wish destruction on anyone who is not like them? No, but, what comes to many peoples minds when they hear Muslim or Conservative or even Liberal? The worst of the worst. Why? Because those are the people that are out front screaming their hate to the world. Don't be surprised by that.

People in this country may be liberal on one topic and conservative on another. Labeling is done by those who are not able to really break down anything other than a "my way or the highway" mentality, regardless of what end of the spectrum they are on.

Indoctrination takes many forms and for those who are mentally ill, having it pounded into their head every day that some group or some party or some race is responsible for all the ills in their life is going to lead to disaster. Ask yourself where a person is going to hear that kind of rhetoric. Be honest about it too.[/quote]
Mentally unstable or immoral people will use anything as an excuse for their violence. Again I've seen no evidence of a general pattern of conservative opinion commentators causing murderous violence.

And comparing folks like Rush Limbaugh to Muslim extremists is just sloppy and absurd.
There's really no mainstream American conservative equivalent to the likes of Al Qaeda or Hamas.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1619827' date='Aug 6 2008, 09:22 PM']And comparing folks like Rush Limbaugh to Muslim extremists is just sloppy and absurd.
There's really no mainstream American conservative equivalent to the likes of Al Qaeda or Hamas.[/quote]

There are American equivalents, but white supremacist groups aren't mainstream, Thank God.

[Deb]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1619827' date='Aug 6 2008, 10:22 PM']Actually, three op-eds were quoted in that article, and there is a general pattern of double-standard in the media when talking about this sort of thing. I remember lots of this "blame Rush" stuff going around after the Oklahoma City bombings in the '90s, which was absolutely ridiculous.

And I've personally heard very few conservative commentators who actually come off as "gun-toting, homosexual-hating murderers." (And, personally, I have nothing against gun-toting, but that is hardly equivalent to being a hate-filled murderer, and I'm not really sure how many conservative pundits tote guns for that matter. Not every one for second-amendment rights is some crazed gun-slinger.)


Have you even actually listened to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter, or any of these other people, other than a few out-of-context and dubious quotes from a liberal source?

Though I haven't for some time, I used to listen to Rush fairly regularly in the '90s, and I've never heard him say anything remotely "hate-filled." If anything, I'd say he's too much of a softy! In fact, I've read some hard-core "paleo-cons" accuse him of being a "purveyor of liberal mush."
I've actually met Anne Coulter, and she's a nice enough lady. Her rhetoric can get a little fiesty, but I'd agree with most of her points about the loony left. Most of what you're quoting sounds like tongue-in-cheek humor to make a point. I've heard much worse from left-leaning "shock jocks, " yet the media rarely calls for them to be silenced.

As for your comment, "I won't even get into Limbaugh or Coulter because they are too dispicable for anyone to tolerate except the most hatefilled of all conservatives," if that same comment were made by a conservative about some liberals, you'd probably decry it as an example of ignorance and hate!

And Sean Hannity isn't really even all that conservative, much less a hate-spewing murderous extremist!

The fact that [i]one[/i] killer happened to have books by Hannity and Savage hardly proves that those commentators [i]cause[/i] violence. I'm sure people who read or listen to conservative commentators are statistically no more violent than the rest of the population. One could probably make a much more convincing case that most killers also listen to rock or rap music, watch Hollywood movies or tv shows, or play video games. I'm sure a number that read even have books by left-wing authors in their bookshelves. (I'm not saying necessarily that any of these things causes murderous violence - simply pointing out the absurdity of this methodology.)


Mentally unstable or immoral people will use anything as an excuse for their violence. Again I've seen no evidence of a general pattern of conservative opinion commentators causing murderous violence.

And comparing folks like Rush Limbaugh to Muslim extremists is just sloppy and absurd.
There's really no mainstream American conservative equivalent to the likes of Al Qaeda or Hamas.[/quote]


So perfectly typical for you. Why don't you show me anything that Coulter has published that is factual, rational and not used to incite hate? I have listened to and read Coulter. I will admit she is funny, only in that she is such a pathetic liar. I really don't want her representing me as a Christian or even as a human being.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1619850' date='Aug 6 2008, 09:42 PM']There are American equivalents, but white supremacist groups aren't mainstream, Thank God.[/quote]
Let's not forget, though, hate groups in America are not confined to whites, nor to "right-wingers."

Thankfully, though, none of these groups have anything on the scale of radical Islam.

And putting people like Rush Limbaugh in the same category as militant Muslim extremists and neo-Nazis is just ridiculous.

[Jesus_lol]

speaking of double standards... it seems everybody is looking for a scapegoat, public violence blamed on video games; one boy murdering another at school, homosexuality is blamed; a tragic suicide, blamed on black t-shirts and rock music; a terrorist act and suddenly every innocent muslim is blamed; a child is abused, christianity is blamed; repeat ad nauseum.

it seems the both sides are looking a scapegoat, a way to blame every thing on the other guy.

Also, while you are cynically discussing and predicting the liberal media's spin on this story, realize that if the situation was reversed you can be da[i]m[/i]n sure the conservative media would be doing the exact same thing.

also that, upon reading of several innocent people killed, some of you didnt think "oh what a shame" or "gee, that s[i]u[/i]cks for their families", but instead went with "how will this affect me?"

Edited August 8, 2008 by Jesus_lol

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1619827' date='Aug 6 2008, 09:22 PM']I've actually met Anne Coulter, and she's a nice enough lady. Her rhetoric can get a little fiesty, but I'd agree with most of her points about the loony left. Most of what you're quoting sounds like tongue-in-cheek humor to make a point.[/quote]
Ah! So that was it. I thought some of that sounded too crazy for her to be serious. I was beginning to feel like a bit of an extremist for having really enjoyed that book.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1621006' date='Aug 7 2008, 10:08 PM']Let's not forget, though, hate groups in America are not confined to whites, nor to "right-wingers."

Thankfully, though, none of these groups have anything on the scale of radical Islam.

And putting people like Rush Limbaugh in the same category as militant Muslim extremists and neo-Nazis is just ridiculous.[/quote]

You're right about that. In St. Pete the group that caused the most trouble were the Uhurus. Mr. Obama got introduced to them when he was there recently. They do some nice things like help try to get businesses to move into black neighborhoods, but when something comes up with the police, they will be the ones causing unrest. A kid with a gun got shot by a policeman a month or so ago, and the leader refused to let any of the witnesses be interviewed. They just want the policeman arrested based on the Uhuru's say so that the kid didn't have a gun. It will get ugly before it gets resolved.

[iheartjp2]

No.

That's my word.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

Well, think of it the other way...

Is it safe to be a conservative?

[Winchester]

It ain't safe to be alive.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1623450' date='Aug 10 2008, 11:21 AM']It ain't safe to be alive.[/quote]
What's that I hear?

It sounds familiar...

Oh yes,

It's the sound of Winnie hitting the nail on the head.

[Socrates]

To live is to die.

[Winchester]

Live and Let Die.