Delaying Your Entrance

[VeniteAdoremus]

I was wondering about what you guys are thinking about entering "young". I know there are many examples of saints who entered young (St. Therese comes to mind, of course, and St. Catherina da Siena vowed virginity at age eight), but there are also many solid communities who ask for at least a year of college or some work experience, which feels sensible to me.

What do you think? [i]As a general rule[/i], if you feel called at a young age, is it best to enter directly, go through college first/get work experience, or what?

(Personally, I wouldn't have lasted a week in the religious life if I'd entered straight after secondary school, so for me the question is moot...)

[Carolyn]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1614405' date='Jul 31 2008, 05:39 PM'](Personally, I wouldn't have lasted a week in the religious life if I'd entered straight after secondary school, so for me the question is moot...)[/quote]

Same here.


I think it's a good idea for people to spend some time "finding themselves" (as cheesy as it sounds) after secondary school. I know that as people, we are continually evolving, but during those high school years, I think I was a completely different person each week (ugh... teenage years).

Stepping out of your parents' shadow and gaining a bit more independence and self-knowledge after high school, I think, is a good idea. Am I totally against eighteen-year-olds entering the convent? No. Do I think fifteen-year-olds who are prepared to the convent (like St. Therese) are rarities? Yes.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I think it depends. We should always strive to respond when God calls. And He does call us at certain times in our lives.

For younger persons, I think it is extremely important that they find a very holy and competent spiritual director that they can work with to be sure that God is calling them to enter without having gone to college or had work experience.

I have a good friend who entered about half a year after graduating high school. She spent about two years in the convent, and is now back for "further discernment". Not on her own wishes, but those of the Mother Superior.

[jkaands]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1614405' date='Jul 31 2008, 05:39 PM']I was wondering about what you guys are thinking about entering "young". I know there are many examples of saints who entered young (St. Therese comes to mind, of course, and St. Catherina da Siena vowed virginity at age eight), but there are also many solid communities who ask for at least a year of college or some work experience, which feels sensible to me.

What do you think? [i]As a general rule[/i], if you feel called at a young age, is it best to enter directly, go through college first/get work experience, or what?

(Personally, I wouldn't have lasted a week in the religious life if I'd entered straight after secondary school, so for me the question is moot...)[/quote]

Recent studies in neuroscience have shown that the brain does not fully mature until the early twenties, later for men than for women (not surprisingly!)

This is one of the reasons behind the Graduated Driving Laws in many (most?) states that have been enacted in the last few years, after a terrible epidemic of fatal car crashes involving 16 year old (legal) drivers.

I think that there's a lesson here for those entering religious life. I personally suspect orders, including some very well-known ones, who accept girls just out of high school. I don't think that men's orders do this. (Diocesan seminary is another matter-there are so many years until ordination). The largest, so-called 'updated' orders make their requirements very clear; at least two years of post high school college or work experience. In fact , most of those entering these orders are mature, with a lot of education and work experience. It appears that these orders, although not attracting many candidates, appear to retain a much higher percentage of them.

If one feels that she should enter as soon a possible, I suspect an unstable or immature vocation. What's wrong with waiting a couple of years, getting some education which might be useful in a convent or monastery, especially a contemplative one? If you is really set on religious life, I think that it's unlikely that you're going to meet the 'love of your life'. People who find these are usually looking for them(!).

[alicemary]

There is a wide world of differrence between the maturity of a 17 year old and one of 22. Those years are vital to your development as an independent adult. I think it is a dangerous practice to go right from your parents house to the convent with no time on your own. You do not need to go into debt with advanced degrees. There is something to be said for working and earning your keep.
Wisely, most convents require you to have some life experience first. I know I am going to get blasted for this, but I speak from years of experience. You do not know what life is about at 18. You may be happy for a few months/years, but soon you are going to say....what was I thinking??? When you realize that you never lived on your own, dated or paid your own bills you might have serious regrets.
As to the saints entering at 16, sure that was the trend years ago. People only lived to around 45 years of age. They died young then. A person who was 16 could marry and often did. Thankfully that practice died in the 1960's or sooner.
If God is truly calling you to be His spouse, there is no reason to run right into a convent after high school. Get some life experience. Find out what this world is really like, and I do not mean sleep around or be a kept woman. I am saying, go to school, or get a job and learn how to deal with people.
Yes, there are many convents that say, sure you are 17, come on in. They dont show you how many of these same gals leave within months.
Grow up fully. Don't run into anything and especially don't be talked into things. If you are called, certainly don't delay for years and years while actively dating etc. But you need at least 2 years post high school or more.

[Nun of That]

It is beautiful to want to give God the best of your years, but you need a certain level of maturity and experience.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Nun of That' post='1614460' date='Jul 31 2008, 08:19 PM']It is beautiful to want to give God the best of your years, but you need a certain level of maturity and experience.[/quote]

I agree. The Holy Spirit calls us all in His time, and whether that be right out of high school or with a couple years more in the world. Those young women who did enter out of highschool and left, I do not believe that it was not the Holy Spirit's will in all cases and that is why they did not ... go on. Our Lord writes straight with crooked lines, sometimes... usually a lot.

Then too, there are many cases where young women have entered after high school and went on and took final vows. I know a Carmelite who made Solemn Profession last year who entered at 17. Then, a young woman who entered another community I know entered about six months after graduating as well and will be making vows soon.

Edited August 1, 2008 by TotusTuusMaria

[Maria Faustina]

I think it depends on an individual's situation. I know that some people may need some time to really experience life on their on two feet before entering the convent. Others, however, may be called by God to the convent directly after high school. You cannot make a blanket statement saying that everyone who feels called to the religious life should go to college first, because it may be completely contrary to what God wants. Like I said, it varies from person to person. This question doesn't just have a yes or no answer.


[quote name='jkaands' post='1614441' date='Jul 31 2008, 08:45 PM']If one feels that she should enter as soon a possible, I suspect an unstable or immature vocation.[/quote]

I disagree. While that could be true for many people, for others it could be something they are definetly sure about. Everyone discerns at different speeds. Some may feel they have an honest vocation sooner than others. It all depends on the individual in question.

[Rising_Suns]

You are right. It does depend on the individual. Most people, however, probably need to be tested in the world, to mature and make sure this is really what they want. On the other hand there are few people, young though they may be, who know deep down to their bones of their vocation -- and even felt it as a child. To delay their entrance would only give the devil, the world, and the flesh more opportunity to undermine their calling.

-Davide

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Maria Faustina' post='1614583' date='Jul 31 2008, 08:14 PM']I think it depends on an individual's situation. I know that some people may need some time to really experience life on their own two feet before entering the convent. Others, however, may be called by God to the convent directly after high school. You cannot make a blanket statement saying that everyone who feels called to the religious life should go to college first, because it may be completely contrary to what God wants. Like I said, it varies from person to person. This question doesn't just have a yes or no answer.[/quote]
Well said I completely agree.

[Luigi]

The primary question about when to enter focuses on maturity - you can call that "finding yourself" or you can call it "knowing your own mind." Maturity is related to age, but not always in direct proportion.

Modern American society has extended childhood, and that's a trend that has been occurring for decades. A person is not usually ready to live fully on her/his own until at least 22 years of age - I mean, some people do so before that, but they may not be truly functional and independent. An independent/functional/mature person in modern society can select and pay for her/his own car, apply for a loan, pay her/his rent & bills, live within a budget, keep up with current events, vote informedly, file taxes, earn her/his own living, keep up with her/his family & social obligations, and a host of other things. Some people - even married couples - remain dependent on their parents in one way or another well into their thirties. Religious life - whether cloistered or active - requires most of the same skills as independent living, since religious institutions are situated within American (or another) culture.

The saints of centuries ago - the Catherine of Sienas and the Teresa of Avilas - came from very different societies. By the time they were fifteen, they had seen babies born in their own homes, grandparents and siblings die in their own homes, education was non-existent or perhaps minimal. The children of Fatima had real responsibilities at quite young ages - tending sheep was a way of generating food/money for the family; they had more responsibility than most children in modern industrialized societies, although children in developing countries probably still fit that older mold. Maybe that's one reason more vocations are coming in the developing countries.

At any rate, a person who knows her/his own mind and has developed the skills to live independently in her/his society - of whatever age - is probably ready for religious life.

Also, not accepting candidates until they shows signs of responsibilty & maturity is better for the congregations in the long run. If a candidate has seen the world, developed some skills, faced some temptations, knows her/his options, and then still decides to join an order, the commitment to the order will be stronger because it is a free donation of self rather than a decision based on idealized or unrealistic expectations.

[VeniteAdoremus]

That's a very insightful point. I have to chew on it for a little while

I'm a PR person for my university (as a student job) and I always tell people to move into student housing because of the enormous educational value of waking up without anything edible in your house. There's something intangible about being "on your own" that I think would be hard to emulate within the convent for [i]most[/i] people. (But as others rightly mentioned above, not for everyone - some can grow up in there if they're called to it.)

Certain people in my life are concerned, not that I'm not mature enough (I've been living on my own for five years and was a treasurer for a 70.000 euro project, gulp), but that I haven't had the time to "explore all my options". That, I think, is [i]not[/i] the best reason to delay, although there is a small amount of truth in it.

[DominicanPhilosophy]

I have to disagree with the thought that [quote]When you realize that you never lived on your own, dated or paid your own bills you might have serious regrets.[/quote] If this were ever a concern to a religious, I think - regardless of age upon entering the convent - it could be a sign that one is not quite detached enough from worldly things to devote oneself totally to religious life. Part of the beauty of young vocations is "giving the first-fruits" to God in complete [human] confidence that, "Yes, this is what I believe He is asking of me." Religious life is always begun with a major leap of faith, and being mere humans, we are prone to making mistakes in our discernment of God's will for our lives. I know many sisters who have entered straight out of high school and have professed or will profess vows soon, and know of very few who have done so and then left the convent. Now that I think about it, a main point to consider is the community's application process and how thorough the vocations director is in talking with each applicant about her [or his, if speaking of the men's side of things ] vocation. While I agree with the comment about how early entrance into convents seemed to be the trend years ago, I feel that, if anything, the trend today in religious life seems to be the very opposite; any "trend" in "excess" is not good, and I believe that age difference adds some variety and spontaneity to religious communities. While the older religious bring wisdom, the younger religious bring much vitality and energy. I think it is just a matter of truly discerning God's call, and if we humans could do that perfectly, there would be a happy medium of young and old vocations.

[littlesister]

Agree with the two-year wait. The practice comes from experience.

A generation ago, anyone NOT entering directly from high school was considered a "late" vocation, but the world has changed in a generation. Holding a job, paying bills, and really considering options bears fruit later on. Not doing so, as well as adding to delayed maturity, can lead to heaps of temptations and what-if's later on.

I may also risk a blasting for this, but a wise priest once told us that he would even be concerned about the candidate who had not had at least an adolescent romance and its breakup. The experience, painful as it is at the time, is a deterrent to what he described as the green-grass syndrome after a few years of religious life. You don't need to have any illusions about what it would be like, because you already know, and have opted for something different with clear knowledge.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='littlesister' post='1614830' date='Aug 1 2008, 07:54 AM']I may also risk a blasting for this, but a wise priest once told us that he would even be concerned about the candidate who had not had at least an adolescent romance and its breakup. The experience, painful as it is at the time, is a deterrent to what he described as the green-grass syndrome after a few years of religious life. You don't need to have any illusions about what it would be like, because you already know, and have opted for something different with clear knowledge.[/quote]

You won't get one from me, because a certain sister told me exactly the same. I was in the preliminary stages of discernment and asked her whether I should date This Guy, and she said "definitely yes". Because unless you're the lucky 1%, there'll come a time of doubt, and this way you can tell yourself that you've tried the other option and it didn't work out.

(I'm double lucky because said "this guy" is now the one who puts me on the plane, whining not allowed, when I'm due for a convent visit but want to chicken out. I understand this isn't the rule )