HisChildForever Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 This would be ten times easier if the Scriptures actually said, outright, "Mary is the Queen of Heaven" or if the apostles (like in Acts or the epistles) literally spoke about Mary and her perfection. Clearly she plays a huge role in the Church - seeing as she's considerably important and there's talk of becoming a "slave" to her, wouldn't it only make sense for all this devotion to be listed in Scriptures? It's like the snowball affect - more and more gets added about her over time when there was so little in the Bible to begin with. Alright, you can say that there are parallels with her to the Ark, but would it be so hard for St. Paul to jot this down in a paragraph or two? Those links you provided, I see lots of fancy words but where are the references? I am thirsting for answers to these questions that I simply can't find anywhere. So much Marian devotion borders on worship and it's simply wrong. She deserves honor but not worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscerningSoul Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 While I don't always understand what I read. (I'm blonde ya' know) I don't mind at all giving myself to Mary and Jesus. I am there child, I rely on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Bear in mind, HCF, if this feels wrong to you then you don't need to do it. Those who have done it have found it helpful, but isn't necessary at all to live as a Catholic in the state of grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1616125' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:20 PM']Bear in mind, HCF, if this feels wrong to you then you don't need to do it. Those who have done it have found it helpful, but isn't necessary at all to live as a Catholic in the state of grace. [/quote] I know It just makes me super wary. Shouldn't we be leaping at the chance to consecrate ourselves to Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1616168' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:11 PM']I know It just makes me super wary. Shouldn't we be leaping at the chance to consecrate ourselves to Jesus?[/quote] It is difficult to understand, but when we consecrate ourselves to Jesus, we are consecrating ourselves to Mary, and vice versa. Jesus and Mary are so closley united. His will is her will, and Her will is His will. The St. Louis Marie DeMontfort consecration is not mandatory, and I don't think everyone is ready for it. Edited August 3, 2008 by friendofJPII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='friendofJPII' post='1616170' date='Aug 2 2008, 09:14 PM']It is difficult to understand, but when we consecrate ourselves to Jesus, we are consecrating ourselves to Mary, and vice versa. Jesus and Mary are so closley united. [b]His will is her will, and Her will is His will[/b]. The St. Louis Marie DeMontfort consecration is not mandatory, and I don't think everyone is ready for it.[/quote] That just brings me right back to where I started. What I bolded - Mary is not equal to Jesus! Jesus is God, Mary is not. Where does it even imply this in the Bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1616172' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:16 PM']That just brings me right back to where I started. What I bolded - Mary is not equal to Jesus! Jesus is God, Mary is not. Where does it even imply this in the Bible?[/quote] Everything is the Catholic faith is not in the Bible. We do see a glimpse of her intercession at the wedding at Cana. It was after her insistance that Jesus performed his first miracle. Would he have done it anyway? Maybe, but she definately pulled on his heartstrings! Mary is not equal to Jesus, but she is so closely untied to Him that she knows his desires, more than any other creature or Saint. I can understand your confusion, however, If I were of another faith tradition and read posts like these, I would think that Catholics worship Mary too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1616168' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:11 PM']I know It just makes me super wary. Shouldn't we be leaping at the chance to consecrate ourselves to Jesus?[/quote] Some people may feel more comfortable consecrating themselves to a feminine/maternal figure or simply feel more "at ease" talking to her, at least at some point on their spiritual journey. I felt more intrigued by her as someone who was younger in the faith. Not long after, I was pointed straight to the Mass and the Eucharist. She's the mother of the Church, and we should have no shame in drawing closer to her for comfort and guidance toward a very strong relationship with her Son. Which is not to say that I still don't have a strong devotion to her - I still emphasize Christ all the more, as all of her devotions are very Christocentric. Edited August 3, 2008 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote]Everything is the Catholic faith is not in the Bible.[/quote] I know, but judging the extreme importance that is placed upon Mary in the Catholic Church, you would think that it would be in the Bible. Like I said a couple of posts ago, I don't understand why St. Paul (for example) didn't go off about Mary and this and that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1616125' date='Aug 2 2008, 08:20 PM']Bear in mind, HCF, if this feels wrong to you then you don't need to do it. Those who have done it have found it helpful, but isn't necessary at all to live as a Catholic in the state of grace.[/quote] I think this is the most important statement in this thread yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1616236' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:25 PM']I think this is the most important statement in this thread yet.[/quote] I think I'm going to buy the book suggested to get a better understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) I personally don't know of any Catholics who have done the consecration. I don't think it's very widespread, unless I'm unaware of its popularity. It may call out to some and really appeal to some. I have never gone through with the whole consecration - got a bit sidetracked but may return someday - but I see the amount of self-denial and total humility it demands... very biblical concepts. It's quite a challenge but I can definitely see the imitation of Christ it requires.. and you know what they say.. imitation is the highest form of flattery. Edited August 3, 2008 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Norseman82' post='1616236' date='Aug 2 2008, 10:25 PM']I think this is the most important statement in this thread yet.[/quote] Cool. Thanks. I only say it because it's what I myself have embraced. Like HCF, Marian things, or certain language like that used by Montfort, can rub me the wrong way or just make me uncomfortable. As I've said elsewhere, my main pulls are toward the Blessed Sacrament and the Divine Mercy. If people don't have the same zeal for them as I do, that's fine as well. We all stand in each other's gaps, I think. As long as we all agree that Our Lady is "full of grace" and worthy of our respect and love, there shouldn't be a problem, IMHO. Edited August 3, 2008 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Heck, it's only nine bucks? [url="http://www.amazon.com/True-Devotion-Mary-Louis-Monfort/dp/0895552795"]http://www.amazon.com/True-Devotion-Mary-L...t/dp/0895552795[/url] I'm just throwing the link on here to make sure this is the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='lilac_angel' post='1616242' date='Aug 2 2008, 09:35 PM']I personally don't know of any Catholics who have done the consecration. I don't think it's very widespread, unless I'm unaware of its popularity. It may call out to some and really appeal to some. I have never gone through with the whole consecration - got a bit sidetracked but may return someday - but I see the amount of self-denial and total humility it demands... very biblical concepts. It's quite a challenge but I can definitely see the imitation of Christ it requires.. and you know what they say.. imitation is the highest form of flattery.[/quote] It was really popular at FUS when I was there. I don't know if it still is. We had a campus wide consecration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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