Dusty Fro Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I am a non-Catholic Christian, and I've been grappling a lot with the concept of the Trinity. I used to have a good grasp on it, but maybe I think too much. I don't really have a problem understanding the Holy Spirit, it's just the Father/Son part that boggles me. People call Jesus the Son of God, but at the same time, He is fully God, right? When Jesus was resurrected, He was seated at the right hand of the Father, so...does that mean He's only an instrument of God? I believe that Jesus was God manifested on earth in human form, but obviously while He was on earth, the Father part stayed in Heaven. It's very confusing to me. Could someone give me a Catholic perspective on the Trinity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Think about God the Father as the mind. Jesus is the application of the mind in a concrete way, like an idea, or more accurately, a WORD. The idea is of the mind, but also different from it. A manifestation of the mind's power. The holy spirit is the love the father has for the Son and vice versa. This is a wierd way of thinking about it but It helped me. Plus don't think too hard. God can do anything. The facts in scripture point to a three-person God. Some things we just have to take in faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Definately don't think too hard on it. Its a mystery we will never fully understand until we get to Heaven! GC good post. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I am a non-Catholic Christian, and I've been grappling a lot with the concept of the Trinity. I used to have a good grasp on it, but maybe I think too much. I don't really have a problem understanding the Holy Spirit, it's just the Father/Son part that boggles me. People call Jesus the Son of God, but at the same time, He is fully God, right? When Jesus was resurrected, He was seated at the right hand of the Father, so...does that mean He's only an instrument of God? I believe that Jesus was God manifested on earth in human form, but obviously while He was on earth, the Father part stayed in Heaven. It's very confusing to me. Could someone give me a Catholic perspective on the Trinity? The mystery of the Trinity is the reality that God is fundamentally a Communion and not a solitude. The basic formulation is the say that God is Three distinct Persons who are of one Substance. This does not take away from the unity of God because Persons or Hypostases are a part of the Essence of Divinity or Absolute Being as is substantial relationality. Our mental categories of distinction are based on contingent being and so we conceive of relationality as an accidental whereas in Absolute Being relationality is intrinsic to its Substance. One cannot approach a grasp of Trinitarian Absolute Being apart from mystical experience because it is fundamentally transcendent, although it can be formulated and explored in different ways using our limited modes of expression. The things about Christ being seating at the right hand of the Father is primarily an expression of His dominion with the Father. In other words He has a Divine authority and rightly so. Christ is called the Son of God because this is what He is. The Three Persons of the Trinity are, as you know, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Son is the perfect Image of the Father, the Eternal and Infinite Expression of All that the Father is. In this way it is said that He is the Son, eternally begotten of the Father. Christ, the God-man, had a beginning in time and is this Divine Person (the Son), with His Divine Nature, in Hypostatic Union with a human nature. He is true God and true man. Jesus is the definitive revelation of God. Christ's hypostatic union is the principle by which creation is brought into communion with God. We can attain heaven (eternal participation in the Divine Life) through incorporation into Christ's body. Matter is not evil and thus in a sense Christ's very flesh (now glorified) has become a physical instrument of communicating Divine Life to the world. Ack! I feel like I'm babbling.. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Fro Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 When I was first a Christian, someone wrote on the chalkboard in my youth group room that we should rejoice because God died on the cross for our sins. This inspired a conversation that has stuck with me for 7 years. One of the leaders, a pastor's wife, explained it to us like this: God the Father is like the sun. He's really big and powerful. Jesus is like the light from the sun. We can't see the actual sun because it's too far away, so all we actually see is the light. The Holy Spirit is like the warmth we feel from the light. It's a very simplified picture of the Trinity, but it gets me through, you know. When I have problems understanding things, like passages in the Bible that rub me the wrong way, I ask questions, read commentaries, and pray that God will show me the truth in His Word, and eventually, my troubled mind is reconcilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 That's a great way of thinking about it. I'd see it a bit differently though: The Father is the Sun The Son is the growth, trees plants ,animals that are the result of the sun, the manifestation of its power... its effect on the earth, in concrete, tangible way. The Holy Spirit is lightand warmth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Fro Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 The Son is the perfect Image of the Father, the Eternal and Infinite Expression of All that the Father is. I never thought that studying Shakespeare would bring me understanding on the Trinity! I recently had to read the Sonnets, and in the procreation Sonnets the poet encourages the Young Man to have a baby so that his beauty would be perpetuated. Jesus as the image of God becomes clear to me with that kind of mindset. (Read:English major=NERD!) This post is going all over the place, carazy! :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 When I was first a Christian, someone wrote on the chalkboard in my youth group room that we should rejoice because God died on the cross for our sins. This inspired a conversation that has stuck with me for 7 years. One of the leaders, a pastor's wife, explained it to us like this: God the Father is like the sun. He's really big and powerful. Jesus is like the light from the sun. We can't see the actual sun because it's too far away, so all we actually see is the light. The Holy Spirit is like the warmth we feel from the light. It's a very simplified picture of the Trinity, but it gets me through, you know. When I have problems understanding things, like passages in the Bible that rub me the wrong way, I ask questions, read commentaries, and pray that God will show me the truth in His Word, and eventually, my troubled mind is reconcilled. Wow, that's the first time I've encountered that sun metaphor anywhere outside of the Dialogue of St. Catherine of Siena. I love that image. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I never thought that studying Shakespeare would bring me understanding on the Trinity! I recently had to read the Sonnets, and in the procreation Sonnets the poet encourages the Young Man to have a baby so that his beauty would be perpetuated. Jesus as the image of God becomes clear to me with that kind of mindset. (Read:English major=NERD!) This post is going all over the place, carazy! Cool!! Yeah, something that helps me is to consider that God is One, but also that God is Love. All of the attributes of God, His Absolute Unity, Goodness, Beauty, Truth, etc. are only logical distinctions that we make in our minds but are all One in the Divine Nature. If you think about it all of these concepts imply one another which indicates their substantial unity in Absolute Being. The Father is the First Principle of the Godhead. The Son and Holy Spirit are Uncreated and exist from all eternity so you cannot talk about a time when they did not exist. But since we say things like "the Son was eternally begotten of the Father". This implies a primacy of the Father in the mode of generation in the relationality of the Divine Nature. So we can say that the Father, as the First Principle is Absolutely Good. And since goodness is by nature self-diffusive, the existence of this First Principle of Absolute Goodness requires a kind of expression, or diffusion of that Goodness. And since God is perfect and Absolute this expression or diffusion must be consubstantially eternal, Absolute and perfect. This is precisely the eternal begetting of the Word, or Son. The Father and Son have a relation and a reciprocity which brings about the Holy Spirit. Some have described the Spirit as "the Love between the Father and the Son" which I believe is a good description. But there is more to it than that. The Spiration of the Holy Spirit is the perfection of Love. This is why the procession from the Father and the Son is essential. The Son, as the expressed Image of the Father participates in the spiration of the Holy Spirit as He is the Perfect Image of the Father. This is the perfection of Communion because there is what could be describes analogously as a reciprocal volitional aspect. An analogy would be the fact that human love, for it to truly be love, requires a sanction or completion by the will. Ack! I feel like I'm rambling again.. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Wow... LD.... wow.... Dusty, I hear ya! I'm another English major nerd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I don't know if I'd say "don't think too hard on it". I don't think anyone could think hard enough! It is very beneficial to contemplate the Trinity - as that is our very nature (the image in which God made us). I would, however, warn not to get discouraged with not understanding. Don't WORY too much about it. But think alot about it. God likes it when we think about Him. And He will help you understand if you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 There's a difference between thinking too hard and contemplating or meditating. You're right though, we probably can't contemplate on the Trinity enough, but it IS a mystery and if we think to hard on it we're very likely to fall into error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 St. Augustine recounts a story of when he was walking along a beach trying to figure out the Trinity. He came along a young boy taking water from the ocean and putting it into a hole he had dug. St. Augustine asked him what he was doing. The boy replied that he was trying to empty the ocean. St. Augustine tells him that that is impossible. The boy says "So is trying to understand the Trinity" and promptly dissapears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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