IcePrincessKRS Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Woot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, The challenge seems a bit broad. Are you saying that in order to win the challenge the person must demonstrate every teaching of the Church to be biblical? It can be done, but it would be really, really, really....long. I mean, that would include everything from the central truths of the Incarnation and the Trinity down to the more disciplinary matters of abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent. If you do not want any "canned" answers, then ask about one teaching, rather than all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, The challenge seems a bit broad. Are you saying that in order to win the challenge the person must demonstrate every teaching of the Church to be biblical? It can be done, but it would be really, really, really....long. I mean, that would include everything from the central truths of the Incarnation and the Trinity down to the more disciplinary matters of abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent. If you do not want any "canned" answers, then ask about one teaching, rather than all of them. Dairy, To build on what Polar Bear wrote... Look toward the Sacraments... We're the only Church with them (except for Orthodox).... For every Catholic teaching there is a non-Catholic church, which uses the bible, that believes the Catholic Church is correct. When I say non-Catholic it is in the very strictess of the sense; not in communion with Rome. If you took all non-Catholic churches (34,000 plus) and made one church you would have all of the Catholic teachings.... just something for you to think about. God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, The challenge seems a bit broad. Are you saying that in order to win the challenge the person must demonstrate every teaching of the Church to be biblical? It can be done, but it would be really, really, really....long. I mean, that would include everything from the central truths of the Incarnation and the Trinity down to the more disciplinary matters of abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent. If you do not want any "canned" answers, then ask about one teaching, rather than all of them. Yes I know it's broad. I was posting this in response to Ironmonk's bet to dis-prove the CC. I know I didn't make myself clear, but I think I made my point. so.. Yes the sacraments are something else. Honestly, none of them are all that compelling at all.. except for the Eucharist. I don't know if it's the Catholic still in me or what. It's the only thing that kept me Catholic for a long time. And there is all that historical evidence. This is a major topic for me too. I sometimes say that I wonder if the CC got rid of any dissendents documents on the issue, but his I can never really know. I sometimes say that the early people believed in the real presence, spiritually. But that seems like a cop out reading the texts. I sometimes say that just because it was believed by the majority doesn't mean it's right. But the minority is very sparse. But also, even if it was right, it doesn't mean the CC is true. If the Eucharist made a church true, then anglicans and Eastern orthodox and other apostolic churches could claim this. I'd even say that anyone can participate in the Eucharist, if it were true, based on what I have seen. I need to do more than just read some quotes, so I will have to buckle down and really study all sides of the issue. But this issue I admit I am somewhat lost on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Dairy, Maybe you are looking from the wrong angle.... Let's examine what Jesus did say about His Church... [b]St. Matt 16:18[/b] "[color=red]And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.[/color]" [b]19 [/b][color=red]I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.[/color]" Jesus is speaking directly to Peter here, this English version has been translated 3 times... Originally in Aramaic (Kephas = rock)... Then the Greek were we get the different endings of 'Petros', one is masculine and one is feminine... following proper grammar they could not give Peter the feminine and that is why there is a difference in the Greek to English... An Aramaic to English would read [color=red]"...you are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church...[/color]" Peter's name in Aramaic was Kephas/Cephas as shown in John's Gospel and in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. Aramaic is what was spoken and it means Rock. [b]John 1:42 [/b]Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Kephas" (which is translated Peter). The argument that Jesus was not calling Peter the Rock is wrong. [b]John 21:15 [/b] When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "[color=red]Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?[/color]" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "[color=red][b]Feed my lambs.[/b][/color]" [b]16 [/b]He then said to him a second time, "[color=red]Simon, son of John, do you love me?[/color]" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "[color=red][b]Tend my sheep.[/b][/color]" [b]17 [/b]He said to him the third time, "[color=red]Simon, son of John, do you love me?[/color]" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "[b][color=red]Feed my sheep.[/color][/b]" This also shows the same as with St. Matt 16:18 that Peter was the leader of the Apostles after Jesus went to Heaven. Peter was the first Pope. [b]St. Matt 28:18[/b] Then Jesus approached and said to them, "[color=red]All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.[/color] [b]19 [/b][color=red]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,[/color] [b]20 [/b][color=red]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.[/color]" Jesus said this to the Apostles, that the Church will always be around and in every Nation from the first Christians on... and that Jesus will always guide the Church... If Jesus is guiding the Church, then the official teaching of the Church cannot be wrong. [b]Luke 10:16[/b] "[color=red]He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me[/color]" Christ speaks to us throught the Church. [b]Matt 5:13 [/b] "[color=red]You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.[/color] [b]14 [/b][color=red] You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. [/color] [b]15[/b][color=red] Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. [/color] the True Church that Jesus built will be visible for all to see, that it has been visible since the time of the Apostles... The Catholic Church is the only Church that is 2000 years old... The Catholic Church is the "City set on a Mountain that cannot be hidden." All through history, the Catholic Church has been there, all other Christian churches are less than 500 years old and they do not have a unity of faith... How can any other church that has not been around since 33 AD be the Church built by Christ? [b]John 14:16 [/b] [b][color=red]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate 8 to be with you always, [/color][/b] [b]17 [/B[color=red]][B]the Spirit of truth, [/b] which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. [/color] [b]18[/b][color=red] I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.[/color] [b] Jesus promised that the Church would be guided by the Holy Spirit, in Truth. The Church cannot be wrong about faith and morals, because Jesus said so. Either the Catholic Church is right about all things in regards to faith and morals, or there is no God. Nothing else makes sense. To believe in Jesus the Christ, is to believe EVERYTHING that He said. The ONLY church that adds up to everything Jesus said is the Catholic Church. Come to Christ as a child, you don't have to understand it, but you do have to accept it.... then seek to understand and listen closly to the Church that He guides. If God is not guiding the Catholic Church then there is no God and all of our time is wasted in vain on this board. [/b] Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Eastern Orthodox CAN claim that. Did you look at my links? Every Catholic doctrine is biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 (edited) nm Edited March 4, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Dear Dairygirl, My name is Donna, and your last post is the first time I have read civiity tempered with humility in any of your posts (though I have not read them all). I don't know what beef you have, it's really none of my business. But your general rudeness is not befitting a daughter of Jesus and Mary. I chose to not pm you about this, because I do not want my faith shaken. I only speak for myself: dUSt, [i]et al[/i], have been more than sweet and benificent to you. [b][i][color=green]PhatCatholic has been a downright shining knight in armor toward you, treating you seriously, and is the example of a true Catholic gentleman. [/color][/i][/b] We both should be on our knees thanking God for the good will that man has! You should've already given him $10,000. Sincerely in the Holy Family, Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozencell Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 The fact that the Catholic Church compiled the Bible is enough evidence alone without even cracking the cover open to page 1. I'm not a history scholar, but I do read a lot of things that people have to say on here (especially IronMonk) and read books, too. It all makes sense and to be shown the truth and reject it is to reject God, who is Truth. Thank you everyone for your support of the Catholic Church and for providing detailed information for us who do not know, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. Also, those who are not Catholic should heed the words of those who provide this great information, being careful not to throw empty challenges that you have already decided to reject before they start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 (edited) Dear Donna, I am sorry you feel that way! I don't recall ever being impolite, but am sorry if I ever have been. Please show me where I have erred so that I won't do it again. Do you mean my "canned Catholic" stuff? I admit that was a little rough around the edges, but in actual fact, that was all copied from Ironmonk's post but changed "anti-Catholic" to "catholic". I thought the smile at the end would put to sleep any doubts anyone would have had. But not I am not bashing Ironmonk because he means well. he just gets a little too upset at times. But he is clearly very motivated with this faith and that is beautiful. Edited March 4, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 4 2004, 12:39 PM'] But not I am not bashing Ironmonk because he means well. he just gets a little too upset at times. But he is clearly very motivated with this faith and that is beautiful. [/quote] He's not getting upset. He is just answereing your challenge in a completely thorough way. You've yet to address his last post. Going to take a shot at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 4 2004, 12:39 PM'] Dear Donna, I am sorry you feel that way! I don't recall ever being impolite, but am sorry if I ever have been. Please show me where I have erred so that I won't do it again. Do you mean my "canned Catholic" stuff? I admit that was a little rough around the edges, but in actual fact, that was all copied from Ironmonk's post but changed "anti-Catholic" to "catholic". I thought the smile at the end would put to sleep any doubts anyone would have had. But not I am not bashing Ironmonk because he means well. he just gets a little too upset at times. But he is clearly very motivated with this faith and that is beautiful. [/quote] I don't get upset. I use ALL CAPS to show emphasis. "they" say that ALL CAPS is shouting... "they" are wrong.... "they" are always trying to tell you want to do... "they" are the biggest spreaders of falsehoods... "they" say a lot but don't back it up with facts... "they" etc.... tone of a post comes from inside our own heads, if we all imagined Mr. Rogers saying everything, then we would not get so offended. Granted; emoticons are used to show tone... but that's another topic God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Dear Dairygirl, "Please show me where I have erred so that I won't do it again." If you aren't careful about being clear (re: your doctrinal, etc, points, as you've stated in various posts) why should others? Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 (edited) Donna, If I didn't really answer, it would seem somewhat justified on your part. But I have answered everything so it seems you are not talking to me out of spite? Please tell me at least what I have not been clear on, and I will show you where I have already covered it. Edited March 5, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 A great Catholic site, is Scott Hahns, [url="http://www.salvationhistory.com"]http://www.salvationhistory.com[/url] Check it out and explore Alos check out www.catholic.com for answers to all your questions about the catholic church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts