The Rosary

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1611778' date='Jul 29 2008, 03:23 PM']+J.M.J.+
say what? who are these people you know? lol. i know no one like that. maybe that is your experience with either yourself or your friends, but i don't know anyone like that. maybe i don't travel in the same kind of circles, lol.[/quote]


A chaplet to Mary is basically a shortened form of the Rosary, which is fine. Novenas are fine. Sometimes when I can't say the entire DM chaplet at 3 :00 because I'm emersed in my work I just say a few lines of it, and I think that suffices (Jesus even told St. Faustina to that was okay). I'm not calling for legalism, but on the other hand, I don't understand how someone who was really devoted to Mary would not want to pray the Rosary. Some are overwhelmed by the legnth, or feel they are not medidating correctly. All Jesus and Mary want is a willingness to try and a contrite heart. We don't need to pray perfectly. The Holy Spirt perfects our imperfect prayers.

Edited July 29, 2008 by friendofJPII

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1612021' date='Jul 29 2008, 06:12 PM']A chaplet to Mary is basically a shortened form of the Rosary, which is fine. Novenas are fine. Sometimes when I can't say the entire DM chaplet at 3 :00 because I'm emersed in my work I just say a few lines of it, and I think that suffices (Jesus even told St. Faustina to that was okay). I'm not calling for legalism, but on the other hand, I don't understand how someone who was really devoted to Mary would not want to pray the Rosary.[/quote]

[i]Eventually I gave it up altogether. It takes too much effort for me to make each Hail Mary count. And when I learned that I can meditate on something else while the prayers spill out I would end up either falling asleep, rushing to finish, or thinking about something else.[/i]

That's okay, St. Therese fell asleep while praying the Rosary. I often pray it lying down. All your Hail Mary's [i][b]did[/b] [/i]count even if you were thinking about who was going to win the Superbowl or something like that. I would encourage you to give it another try, maybe start with a decade, or pray along with a tape. The things we think about during prayer (otherwise known as distractions) can be offered to God, God wants to know what is on our heart, so our distractions can actually be inspirations from the Holy Spirit.

"Everything is a grace..." St. Therese

Edited July 29, 2008 by friendofJPII

[StColette]

[quote name='salterrae' post='1611836' date='Jul 29 2008, 04:51 PM']JM + JT

The Rosary, along with the story of Fatima, is actually what got me to take my faith seriously. I used to pray it every nite right before falling asleep, but of course not very devoutly being the "baby"-Catholic I was.

Eventually I gave it up altogether. It takes too much effort for me to make each Hail Mary count. And when I learned that I can meditate on something else while the prayers spill out I would end up either falling asleep, rushing to finish, or thinking about something else.

I'm still looking for that way to honor Our Lady that suits me best. I think my favorite title of hers is Queen of Heaven. Any ideas? [/quote]

For different Marian prayers and devotions go here [url="http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/marian.htm"]http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/marian.htm[/url]

August Queen of Heaven also called Our Lady, Queen of Angels is a very beautiful prayer you might enjoy it.

[b]August Queen of Heaven,
sovereign queen of Angels,
you who at the beginning
received from God
the power and the mission to crush the head of Satan,
we beseech you humbly,
send your holy legions so that,
on your orders and by your power,
they will track down demons,
fight them everywhere,
curb their audacity and plunge them into the abyss.

Who can be compared to God?
Oh good and tender Mother,
you will always be our love and our hope.

Oh divine Mother,
send the Holy Angels and Archangels to defend me
and to keep the cruel enemy far from me.

Holy Angels and Archangels defend us,
protect us.

Amen.
[/b]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Just want to point out that the preferred prayer of the Church is the Liturgy of the Hours, which is second only to the Mass, as it is an extension of the liturgy of the day. I also want to point out that the Rosary was originally meant for those who could not pray the Liturgy of the Hours. You see, it was in Latin, and those who could not read Latin were encouraged to pray 150 paternosters (Our Fathers, one of a handful of prayers they had memorized in Latin). That developed into praying the Rosary as we know it today.

So, just to be clear, the Rosary is second to the Liturgy of the Hours and was originally intended as a fall-back option.

That having been said, there's nothing wrong with praying both.

And to be clear, I don't pray the Liturgy of the Hours because my schedule is too erratic and it just didn't fit into my spirituality as a youth minister (due only to the schedule issue).

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1612451' date='Jul 30 2008, 07:44 AM']And to be clear, I don't pray the Liturgy of the Hours because my schedule is too erratic and it just didn't fit into my spirituality as a youth minister (due only to the schedule issue).[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
I think you're totally wrong. you should be praying LOTH, because clearly it is preferred above all other prayers and you are totally wrong for not praying it.


































(lol, i'm totally kidding, btw )

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1612021' date='Jul 29 2008, 08:12 PM']I'm not calling for legalism, but on the other hand, I don't understand how someone who was really devoted to Mary would not want to pray the Rosary. Some are overwhelmed by the legnth, or feel they are not medidating correctly. All Jesus and Mary want is a willingness to try and a contrite heart. We don't need to pray perfectly. The Holy Spirt perfects our imperfect prayers.[/quote]

On the contrary, I think it is quite possible to have a devotion to the Blessed Mother without feeling the [b]call[/b] to pray the rosary consistently. Actually, come to think of it, the only times that I generally pray the rosary is when I do feel a strong call to do so. Otherwise I don't usually pray it. And not because it's too long or difficulty meditating (which does happen occasionally). I pray the Liturgy of the Hours. I spend time in personal prayer. I seek the Blessed Mother's intercession, I consecrate much to her. But I do not have a strong call to pray the rosary.

[StColette]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1612459' date='Jul 30 2008, 09:57 AM']On the contrary, I think it is quite possible to have a devotion to the Blessed Mother without feeling the [b]call[/b] to pray the rosary consistently.[/quote]

I think so too. I devoted my entire Thesis for my BA to her. Several hundred hours of work and about 80 to 100 sources on her that I poured through. All for love of her and a clearer understanding of who she is in relation to the Holy Trinity.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='StColette' post='1612467' date='Jul 30 2008, 08:08 AM']I think so too. I devoted my entire Thesis for my BA to her. Several hundred hours of work and about 80 to 100 sources on her that I poured through. All for love of her and a clearer understanding of who she is in relation to the Holy Trinity.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
how cool!

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1612451' date='Jul 30 2008, 08:44 AM']Just want to point out that the preferred prayer of the Church is the Liturgy of the Hours, which is second only to the Mass, as it is an extension of the liturgy of the day. I also want to point out that the Rosary was originally meant for those who could not pray the Liturgy of the Hours. You see, it was in Latin, and those who could not read Latin were encouraged to pray 150 paternosters (Our Fathers, one of a handful of prayers they had memorized in Latin). That developed into praying the Rosary as we know it today.[/quote]

The Brown Scapular requires either the LOTH or Rosary. I started out praying the Rosary at night if I didn't get around to the LOTH...

Wait, the Rosary "developed"? I thought it was just given to St. Dominic? Developed sounds like it just kind of evolved from the repeated Our Father practice.

[StColette]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1612757' date='Jul 30 2008, 01:11 PM']The Brown Scapular requires either the LOTH or Rosary. I started out praying the Rosary at night if I didn't get around to the LOTH...

Wait, the Rosary "developed"? I thought it was just given to St. Dominic? Developed sounds like it just kind of evolved from the repeated Our Father practice.[/quote]

A form of the Rosary, meaning the beads and even the structure has been around for a very long time, even before the vision of Our Lady to St. Dominic. As Micah (Raphael) pointed out the earliest form that we know of comes from a lay form of the Liturgy of the Hours. Many of the lay people were illiterate during this time period, but did have certain prayers memorized such as the Our Father. This early form consisted of 150 Our Fathers, sounds pretty familiar to the modern day Rosary that we know of today. It became a very common practice for all the lay people, which is probably why Our Lady choose it as the form in which she wanted her Psalter prayed in, because the lay people were already so accustomed to the practice. Dr. Mark Miravalle, Prof at FUS and leading Mariologist, even teaches this development in his classes.

I would like to point out that the one prayer that I know of that we are obligated to pray is the Our Father. Micah and I were actually discussing this last night. It is the prayer that Christ taught us to pray and is often in most of the devotions I have ever come across. It's our foundational prayer, a prayer from the Lord, Himself.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='StColette' post='1612770' date='Jul 30 2008, 12:22 PM']A form of the Rosary, meaning the beads and even the structure has been around for a very long time, even before the vision of Our Lady to St. Dominic. As Micah (Raphael) pointed out the earliest form that we know of comes from a lay form of the Liturgy of the Hours. Many of the lay people were illiterate during this time period, but did have certain prayers memorized such as the Our Father. This early form consisted of 150 Our Fathers, sounds pretty familiar to the modern day Rosary that we know of today. It became a very common practice for all the lay people, which is probably why Our Lady choose it as the form in which she wanted her Psalter prayed in, because the lay people were already so accustomed to the practice. Dr. Mark Miravalle, Prof at FUS and leading Mariologist, even teaches this development in his classes.

I would like to point out that the one prayer that I know of that we are obligated to pray is the Our Father. Micah and I were actually discussing this last night. It is the prayer that Christ taught us to pray and is often in most of the devotions I have ever come across. It's our foundational prayer, a prayer from the Lord, Himself.[/quote]


TLOH was formally a required prayer of the clergy. It wasn't until the 2nd Vatican Councel that the laity where encouraged to chime in. I have had some experience praying the TLOH when I go to Catholic Underground and it is very beautiful,I especially like the line in night prayer, "Lord grant me a restful sleep and a peaceful death! Gee, that about covers it. Still, it is rather difficult for most lay people to pray because the prayers must be said at structured times. Also, we must remember that large portions of the world are still illiterate and/ or do not have access to a brievery.

I am in no way say that the Rosary is an obligatory prayer, all I have said is that it is a tremendous source of grace. It is easy to look at saints like MT and PP and say they were esp. "gifted" but the fact of the matter is that we are all called to love to that degree. We may or may not make it, but we should strive to achieve their level of holiness. And how many more Mother Theresas and Padre Pios would there be if more people prayed the Rosary---which is the crown of Marian Devotion? I'm sure there are some people who really aren't "called" to pray it, but my gut tells me that more people are called than not called. Some just don't want to, don't understand the prayer, or lack the discipline..

[StColette]

btw those who want to pray the Liturgy of the Hours and have difficulty doing so because it gets kinda confusing. This is a great book to get in order to help you out [url="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?r=1&ean=0818912561"]http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...;ean=0818912561[/url]

[StColette]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1612876' date='Jul 30 2008, 01:56 PM']TLOH was formally a required prayer of the clergy.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, I believe this is still a requirement for all clergy.

[quote]Still, it is rather difficult for most lay people to pray because the prayers must be said at structured times. Also, we must remember that large portions of the world are still illiterate and/ or do not have access to a brievery.[/quote]

Which is exactly why the Benedictines established the practice of an early form of the Rosary for those lay people that did not have access to the Brievery or were illiterate.

[quote]I am in no way say that the Rosary is an obligatory prayer, all I have said is that it is a tremendous source of grace.[/quote]

You may not have said that it is an obligatory prayer, but your insistence that everyone should pray the Rosary or they are severely lacking something in their spirituality makes it sound as if you are saying it's obligatory. Many devotions are a tremendous source of grace. Going to Mass as often as you can is the largest font of grace that we can place ourselves into. Daily Mass attendance is not obligatory but a devotion and one that is filled with graces beyond that of any other devotion.

[quote]It is easy to look at saints like MT and PP and say they were esp. "gifted" but the fact of the matter is that we are all called to love to that degree. We may or may not make it, but we should strive to achieve their level of holiness.[/quote]

I strive to achieve the holiness that God has set forth not the holiness of other people. There can be a danger in comparing your holiness to others or striving for the holiness of certain people, because they are not in the same situation that you personally are in. I could never reach the holiness and prayer life of Bl. Teresa of Calcutta because she was a someone in the religious life vocation while I myself am in the married vocation. Our spiritual needs are both very different. While Bl. Teresa often prayed for the assistance she needed to carry out her mission with AIDS patients, I however need assistant in not yelling at my husband for leaving dirty clothes on the floor. Again, God has a path of holiness for each person. We can look to the Saints as examples of holiness but I would not say that we should necessarily try to copy their daily routine of devotions because the life of each person is different.

[quote]And how many more Mother Theresas and Padre Pios would there be if more people prayed the Rosary---which is the crown of Marian Devotion?[/quote]

I believe it can be put even more simply, how many more Mother Teresas or Padre Pios would there be if people just prayed. The crisis that we have today is that people do not pray at all or do not attend Mass for that matter. How much better would the world be if they actually prayed or attended Mass. Holiness of life is not dependent upon what devotion you pray, no matter how much grace can come from it, but on keeping the Commandments of God, which includes prayer and Mass attendance. Holiness is measured by your willingness to submit to the will of God whatever that might be.

[friendofJPII]

[i]You may not have said that it is an obligatory prayer, but your insistence that everyone should pray the Rosary or they are severely lacking something in their spirituality makes it sound as if you are saying it's obligatory. Many devotions are a tremendous source of grace. Going to Mass as often as you can is the largest font of grace that we can place ourselves into. Daily Mass attendance is not obligatory but a devotion and one that is filled with graces beyond that of any other devotion. [/i]

Agreed. But not everyone has access to daily mass, or even Sunday mass for that matter. (Many rural parishes do not have a priest and simply have a communion service on Sunday). The Rosary can be said by everyone anywhere.

[i]I strive to achieve the holiness that God has set forth not the holiness of other people. There can be a danger in comparing your holiness to others or striving for the holiness of certain people, because they are not in the same situation that you personally are in. I could never reach the holiness and prayer life of Bl. Teresa of Calcutta because she was a someone in the religious life vocation while I myself am in the married vocation. Our spiritual needs are both very different. While Bl. Teresa often prayed for the assistance she needed to carry out her mission with AIDS patients, I however need assistant in not yelling at my husband for leaving dirty clothes on the floor. Again, God has a path of holiness for each person. We can look to the Saints as examples of holiness but I would not say that we should necessarily try to copy their daily routine of devotions because the life of each person is different. [/i]

I'm not saying we should emulate Bl. Teresa l[i]ife [/i]as much as we should seek to emulate her level of [i]love.[/i] There is a difference.

[i]I believe it can be put even more simply, how many more Mother Teresas or Padre Pios would there be if people just prayed. The crisis that we have today is that people do not pray at all or do not attend Mass for that matter. How much better would the world be if they actually prayed or attended Mass. Holiness of life is not dependent upon what devotion you pray, no matter how much grace can come from it, but on keeping the Commandments of God, which includes prayer and Mass attendance. Holiness is measured by your willingness to submit to the will of God whatever that might be.
[/quote][/i]

Many people do not know how to pray. They may profess to a belief in God, but they think of God as some cosmic Santa Claus, and have no concept of the need to amend their life. I'm not saying the Rosary "is the be all end all" to guaranteed sainthood. What I am saying is that is a tremendous aid to those who are living according to teachings of the Church and are properly disposed. I am simply encouraging people to pray it, as Mary herself has done, in almost every approved apparition. As did Pope John Paul II and the pontiffs before him. As did the Saints.

Edited July 30, 2008 by friendofJPII

[StColette]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1612958' date='Jul 30 2008, 02:28 PM']Agreed. But not everyone has access to daily mass, or even Sunday mass for that matter. (Many rural parishes do not have a priest and simply have a communion service on Sunday). The Rosary can be said by everyone anywhere.[/quote]

But those who do have access to daily Mass may select that as their devotion even if the Rosary is available to them. They may feel more called to that particular devotion than to the Rosary especially given the fact of what takes place at the Mass. Now those who do not have access to Mass (Sunday or Daily) then I would say some other form of devotion is probably necessary. Divine Mercy chaplet can be said just as easily by everyone as the Rosary can be.

[quote]I am simply encouraging people to pray it, as Mary herself has done, in almost every approved apparition. As did Pope John Paul II and the pontiffs before him. As did the Saints.[/quote]

I'm glad you encourage people to pray the Rosary, I do as well. But I do believe that when you said "However, I believe someone who refuses to pray the Rosary (or form of it) for whatever reason is lacking something substantial in their prayer life." it was definitely an incorrect statement to make. You do not have access to the details of their prayer life and your personal preference to the Rosary does not allow you to judge what you see as lacking in someone else's spiritual life.