The Rosary

[StColette]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1610713' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:51 PM']however, i don't see a problem with the Promises initially attracting a lukewarm or soul quite low in faith or graces and then leading them into the devotion and praying it to praise God. that's what i was driving at. they were given for a reason - to attract imperfect humans to do something that would eventually benefit our souls and please God.

God attracts different people in different ways. saying that about the Promises, wondering why more weren't attracted, was a way of potentially piquing the curiosity of those who already don't care one way or another about this beautiful devotion. kind of like advertising one little cool aspect of Catholicism. hehe. i simply wanted to get knowledge out there about them because many Catholics, even devout ones, do not know about them. i never dreamed that it could potentially have bad effects to mention how great they were. but luckily this thread will clear that up. [/quote]

They might aid in getting a person interested in the Rosary at first, but I believe that they should be quite mindful that the Promises aren't the main focus of the Rosary.

You did no harm in posting the Promises and I don't think that doing so potentially could have bad effects. They are very beautiful and were revealed for a reason and should be spread. But always spread in a way that does not make them the main focus of the particular devotion (and no you didn't spread them that way)

[StColette]

[quote name='Deb' post='1610715' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:53 PM']I took a small book of Mother Theresa's meditations on the Rosary to adoration with me one day and have since taken it several times to pray one of the mysteries. Her writing and meditation on the mysteries is so beautiful. I usually end up in tears at some point. I have since picked up other saints and writers meditations and they really do open up the mind to think of things I obviously am too dense to come up with. They have been a great aid to me in bringing me to a love of the rosary.[/quote]

St. Teresa of Avila has a wonderful and very long reflection on the Our Father. It's amazing to read. Such a big work for such relatively small prayer.

[Guest savienu]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1610694' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:35 PM']+J.M.J.+
that's awesome! do you have a meditation book that would help you? I have one by Amy Welborn, you might like it. [url="http://www.amazon.com/Praying-Rosary-Luminous-Sorrowful-Mysteries/dp/1592761518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217270121&sr=1-1"]here it is on amazon.com[/url]

btw, welcome to phatmass! [/quote]

Thanks! I will check out that book.

[Didacus]

Je vous salut Marie, pleine de grace, le Seigneur est avec vous, vous etes benie entres toutes les femmes et Jesus, le fruit de vos entrailles est beni.

Sainte Marie, Mere de Dieu, priez pour nous pauvres pecheurs, maintenant et a l'heure de notre mort.

Amen

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='StColette' post='1610514' date='Jul 28 2008, 09:38 AM']I would put it lower than third, not to be ranking things, but Eucharistic Adoration, in my opinion, is above the Rosary.

The Church repeatedly calls us to many different devotions and does so because each devotion has its own spirituality to it. The Church, Our Lady, Our Lord, and many Saints and Popes have called for a strong devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. Now, this is the devotion that I feel most called toward. I mean I even write the Adoration Newsletter for the parish that I work for. Eucharistic Adoration is where my heart likes to abide. And just like the Rosary anyone has the ability pray before the Blessed Sacrament (given they have Adoration near them). But for many Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament is not where they feel called. They may feel more called to the Rosary or to the Liturgy of the Hours.

If you look into the Eastern Catholic Churches they have many devotions that we do not have, and they are all very beautiful. I know many very holy Eastern Catholics that do not share the Latin Rites devotion to the Rosary. It in no way makes them any less Catholic and I don't think we should require or demand it of them to share our devotions. They would not do that to us.

I think it is also helpful to keep in mind that it is about quality not quantity. I know many Catholics who become scrupulous over the fact that they are not praying enough, ie not saying the Rosary, going to Adoration, and praying the Liturgy of the Hours all in one day. We must keep in mind the vocation of each person. A person who is in a contemplative order is going to have a lot more time to pray then say a busy mom with 9 kids. Each of us are called to be holy but this does not mean it is accomplished through the same means.

We must also keep in mind that those who came before the Rosary found ways to honor Mary and found ways to lead holy lives and be devoted to Mary.[/quote]

I'm not sure if we can compare Eucharistic adoration to the Rosary. Eucharistic adoration is more than a devotion, it's a practice, or a place, being physically present with the Lord himself. One can pray the Rosary while in adoration, or not. But one cannot pray the Rosary and attend Eucharistic adoration if one is not in an adoration chapel. We can pray the Rosary anywhere, but many people do not have EA chapel near them, unfortunately. Based on my (limited) knowledge of the history of the prayer, the Rosary we know today gradually evolved from the 150 Hail Mary's early monks used to pray. This prayer did not come to full fruition until the Middle Ages.

I completely understand where you are coming from, St Collete, about feeling pressure to pray certain prayers out of obligation. When I was in HH at FUS, we had a "laundry list"---I hate to describe prayer in such a way, but that 's how it felt, of prayers from the Blue Pieta book, in addition to a daily Rosary, and 15 meditation from the cross. Being a more spontaneous person, it was difficult for me to keep such a scripted prayer life. Also, my roomate (who thought she had a vocation to be Carmelite nun) would have all these scripted prayers posted all over the room....1)prayer upon waking 2) prayer while taking a shower c) prayer while getting dressed d) prayer before studing...she also slept on the floor w/o a pillow, would go to be at 7 PM, wake up at 3, and instead of eating dinner like normal people she along with her other nun wannabee friend would read readings from St. Teresa of Avilia instead of conversing with people. She would also purposely buy clothes she didn't like. Needless to say, I developed a horrible case of scrupulosity from watching her because I thought she was the epitome of holiness and I couldn't (and didn't want to!) live up to that.

Nevertheless, as Roman Catholics (I need to more research regarding the Eastern rite), I'm not sure how we can truly honor Mary without having some level of devotion to the Rosary, since it is her prayer, and has been proclaimed by countless popes, saints, and Mary herself. I know of no modern day saint who was not devoted to the Rosary...you said you did know of some, can you please share who they were?. I'm not saying everyone is called to pray the entire prayer daily, but it should hold some place in our devotional life.

Edited July 28, 2008 by friendofJPII

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1610652' date='Jul 28 2008, 11:57 AM']Awesome...
...nice! I must admit I haven't broken out the Bible itself for solid spiritual reading in a while. This gives me much incentive.

I think the Rosary and Adoration can even go hand in hand as devotions. Both speed us closer to God and, I think, give us blessings we can't even comprehend as temporal beings.

I believe there's a plenary indulgence attached to finishing a complete 3 mystery Rosary (JPII said that we could still consider 3 mysteries one full Rosary) in front of the Blessed Sacrament. I.e. we could pray the first two rosaries at home, and the third, if we pray it during Adoration, we get a plenary indulgence if we fulfill the other usual obligations (Confession, Communion, prayer for the Pope's intentions in the same week)![/quote]

initially i just wanted to be able to recite the Rosary without having to read a pamphlet or guide. then i found it distracting to have to stop my meditation and read the mysteries, then i memorized the scriptures for them. i wanted it to be more fluid and peaceful. plus, reopening my eyes was like having to wake up out of the darkness. from there, it just took on a mind of its own. you can get into meditating on being each person in each scene and how they felt.

Rosary + Adoration is a whopper of a combo. the Rosary really gets you in the zone, then leaves you in a state of profound peace to listen to God in silent adoration. kinda like how Bishop Sheen said, there's nothing like a cup of coffee before Adoration, well there's nothing like a sincerely meditative Rosary before Adoration.

[johnnydigit]

re: promises - i never really payed much attention to promises, especially the less tangible ones. i was more interested in the practical aspects, and how they related to my mind, body, and direct relationship to God and doing His will. e.g., relaxation, meditative benefits, calmness, focus, increase in prayer, wisdom, scripture, physical and mental health, etc.

time from purgatory, escape from hell fire and eternal punishment, a happy death, joy in heaven, etc. were less tangible and harder for me to relate to, or even believe until my faith was strong enough to accept it.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1610686' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:31 PM']+J.M.J.+
a scrupulous person probably does.

and honestly, i find it really hard to believe that there is an argument over what prayer is better than another! (besides Mass, and LOTH) any prayer that draws you deeper into conformity of God's will is a wonderful thing! some are great at off-the-cuff spontaneous prayer, some are great at rote prayer (like the rosary), some are great at just sitting and listening to God in Adoration. heck, some people are great at all of it! (i wish i was that person!) anyway, that's just my (un-informed) two cents about this. if you pray the rosary, great! if you pray LOTH, great! if you pray the Divine Mercy, great! if you go to Adoration, great! It's all in my book! [/quote]

i always gotta remind myself that people are at different points in their spiritual journey, and some have a hard time concentrating. some prayers are more attractive or just easier than others, and it would be foolish to try and force calculus on a kindergartener. however, we do need to make people aware of what is available and why, but ultimately let the person choose which devotion they want to do. all in God's time, but being open is key.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='savienu' post='1610688' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:31 PM']I LOVE the divine mercy chaplet, and like you it was something I prayed early on in my return to the Church. Frankly, in the beginning I just found it easier. I've also read some of Sr. Faustina's diary, and love the insights it brings.

As far as the rosary, I try to pray it, but I admit, it's TOUGH. I have fallen asleep praying it before, and I have a hard time really meditating on the mysteries, so it ends up becoming just a lot of repetition. I do see the value of it, though, and I pray for the grace to get better at praying it consistently.[/quote]

definitely good to be open to it as the value is so prominent, but i wouldn't worry about it right now. all in God's time. when i got bored of it, i tried different ones, including the DM Chaplet. when i realized i wasn't getting as much from it, i went back to the Rosary, but with even greater determination to learn the Scriptures behind the mysteries and get deeper into them.

sometimes when i don't feel like doing a Rosary, i do something else. find another devotion, read around in Scripture, or just adore. however lately i do feel more guilty as i've tried to commit to a daily Rosary.


fyi my favorite mysteries are the Sorrowful and Joyful. the Joyful ones make me, well, joyful, especially when i get to the Magnificat. it just explains how i feel about God and so i made a point to memorize it.
the Sorrowful Mysteries are the most powerful, but lately it has gotten so intense that i get tired of the emotional exhaustion it causes. by the time the crucifixion comes, i can almost feel the nails piercing my hands and cringe at each strike. doing historical research on the torture of crucifixion also has fueled my imagination and can send one into much greater suffering with Our Lord, even beyond the desensitization the violent media has reaped on us..

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1611290' date='Jul 29 2008, 09:03 AM']you can get into meditating on being each person in each scene and how they felt.[/quote]
I know what you mean. Being a mother now, I tend to reflect on the mysteries through the eyes of Mary. Especially with the Joyful Mysteries.

[StColette]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1610950' date='Jul 28 2008, 06:47 PM']Nevertheless, as Roman Catholics (I need to more research regarding the Eastern rite), I'm not sure how we can truly honor Mary without having some level of devotion to the Rosary, since it is her prayer, and has been proclaimed by countless popes, saints, and Mary herself.[/quote]

Other Ways to Honor Mary:

Our Lady of Czestochowa
Our Lady, Star of the Sea
Immaculate Conception
Immaculate Heart of Mary
Seven Sorrows
Seven Joys
Ten Evangelical Virtues of the Virgin Mary
Chaplet of Our Lady of Guadalupe
The Dominican Chaplet
Franciscan Crown

lol I could keep listing. I understand that Mary has called for the Rosary and I believe that, and I make it a practice to say the Rosary as often as I can. One must also keep in mind that though these things have been revealed through private revelation, and though quoted and encouraged by Popes and Saints, Catholics are not bound to believe in these private revelations, because they are not part of the deposit of the faith and nor would they be included in the deposit of faith. Many Popes, Saints, and Mary herself have called for devotions toward other things such as Liturgy of the Hours, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Several Marian Chaplets, Eucharistic Adoration, etc. It's a very long list of different forms of prayer that we are being called to. Many people today simply don't have time to complete all of these prayers in one day, especially given the fact that they work and have children. I think the most important thing is that a person have some type of devotion in their life, whether it be the Rosary or Mass or whatever. The important thing is that a person is setting aside time to abide with God in prayer. We could go back and forth for years on what devotions, many of which I haven't even listed, have been more called for or have been more so proclaimed than the other. I think what we should focus on instead is the call to prayer rather that be through the Rosary, Eucharistic Adoration, Daily Mass, etc. God wants us to come to Him in prayer and I don't believe He's going to be legalistic when we die and say to us "well, Jennie you went to Eucharistic Adoration on a very regular basis and prayed everyday, but you didn't pray the Rosary so..." Each devotion that the Church encourages is a path to holiness and it is my belief that we have so many devotions because each person's path is different from someone else.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='StColette' post='1611390' date='Jul 29 2008, 08:38 AM'][i]Other Ways to Honor Mary:

Our Lady of Czestochowa
Our Lady, Star of the Sea
Immaculate Conception
Immaculate Heart of Mary
Seven Sorrows
Seven Joys
Ten Evangelical Virtues of the Virgin Mary[/i]

These are titles of Mary, but not prayers, per se all though we can meditate on them.

[i]Chaplet of Our Lady of Guadalupe
The Dominican Chaplet
Franciscan Crown[/i][/quote]
These prayers are basically variations of the Rosary.

Anyway, I agree with you that we are not all called to pray in the same way. However, I believe someone who refuses to pray the Rosary (or form of it) for whatever reason is lacking something substantial in their prayer life. It is an integral part of our Catholic tradition. Another benefit of the Rosary is that everyone can pray it, everywhere. You don't need anything to pray the Rosary, not even Rosary beads, while one must be literate to pray the LOTH, or have a car to go to Adoration.

Edited August 1, 2008 by homeschoolmom

[StColette]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1611402' date='Jul 29 2008, 09:59 AM']However, I believe someone who refuses to pray the Rosary (or form of it) for whatever reason is lacking something substantial in their prayer life.[/quote]

Again, this is a person opinion. I would not say this regarding any Catholic because we cannot know the heart or spiritual depth of any Catholic. I've met several holy people that do not have strong devotion to the Rosary, they might pray it occasionally but do not make it a strong practice. Again, we cannot judge a person by not praying the Rosary and nor can we say that they are lacking something substantial in their prayer life, because quite frankly we do not have access to what their prayer life is like nor the depth of their soul. I think it's very judgmental to hold such an opinion as to say that someone who does not pray the Rosary is lacking something substantial in their prayer life, because quite frankly that person could turn right around and say the same thing about those who do not pray the Liturgy of the Hours or Divine Mercy Chaplet, etc.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='StColette' post='1611424' date='Jul 29 2008, 09:42 AM']Again, this is a person opinion. I would not say this regarding any Catholic because we cannot know the heart or spiritual depth of any Catholic. I've met several holy people that do not have strong devotion to the Rosary, they might pray it occasionally but do not make it a strong practice. Again, we cannot judge a person by not praying the Rosary and nor can we say that they are lacking something substantial in their prayer life, because quite frankly we do not have access to what their prayer life is like nor the depth of their soul. I think it's very judgmental to hold such an opinion as to say that someone who does not pray the Rosary is lacking something substantial in their prayer life, because quite frankly that person could turn right around and say the same thing about those who do not pray the Liturgy of the Hours or Divine Mercy Chaplet, etc.[/quote]


I was refering to people who "out and out" don't pray it all. Subjectively we can't judge an individual soul, but objectively we can state that a tremendous amount of grace is lost by completely ommiting prayers to Mary, in particular the Rosary.

Edited July 29, 2008 by friendofJPII

[StColette]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1611435' date='Jul 29 2008, 10:55 AM']I was refering to people who "out and out" don't pray it all. Subjectively we can't judge an individual soul, but objectively we can state that a tremendous amount of grace is lost by completely ommiting prayers to Mary, in particular the Rosary.[/quote]

One does not have to pray the Rosary to pray to Mary for her intercession. Now, most Catholics that I know have some type of devotion to Mary. Many of them speak to her very openly, not in the form of structured prayer and they feel that this form of prayer is more beneficial to them because they feel that they are getting their intentions across in a more sufficient way. Even a single Hail Mary is very pleasing to Our Lady if said with a devoted heart. Now while Mary is the mediatrix of all Graces, those graces still come directly from God and first must come from Him and then to her. If there is a truly devoted soul, who does not pray the Rosary, but prays in other forms to Mary for her intercession God isn't going to keep graces from that person. God is not legalistic and does not have a list of prayer requirements that must be meet before He will give you graces. He requires that we live good and faithful lives and this can be done without praying the Rosary and was done so for generations before the Rosary was given to us.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1611293' date='Jul 29 2008, 02:17 AM']however, we do need to make people aware of what is available and why, but ultimately let the person choose which devotion they want to do. all in God's time, but being open is key.[/quote]
most definitely!

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1611313' date='Jul 29 2008, 03:41 AM']I know what you mean. Being a mother now, I tend to reflect on the mysteries through the eyes of Mary. Especially with the Joyful Mysteries.[/quote]me too! actually, all the mysteries I try to see through the eyes of Mary.


[quote name='StColette' post='1611390' date='Jul 29 2008, 07:38 AM']Each devotion that the Church encourages is a path to holiness and it is my belief that we have so many devotions because each person's path is different from someone else.[/quote]
right on!!

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1611402' date='Jul 29 2008, 07:59 AM']These are titles of Mary, but not prayers, per se all though we can meditate on them.[/quote]
[url="http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/7sorrows.htm"]Seven Sorrows[/url]
[url="http://www.shrinesf.org/rosary.htm#joys"]Seven Joys[/url]
[url="http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/czesto.htm"]Our Lady of Czestochowa[/url]
[url="http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/chaplets/chap47.htm"]Our Lady, Star of the Sea[/url]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/novena/immaculate.htm"]Immaculate Conception[/url]
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07168a.htm"]Immaculate Heart of Mary[/url]
[url="http://prayers.viarosa.com/VirtuesChaplet.html"]Ten Evangelical Virtues of the Virgin Mary[/url]
they are all prayers, novenas or chaplets.