lilac_angel Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) [quote]lol I wasn't directing that at you I just know some people get very fixed on those promises and that becomes their driving force for the Rosary rather than out of love and devotion.[/quote] I hope you didn't assume because I excitedly pointed out the promises earlier on that that was the only reason why I prayed them and that I don't have a love or devotion to the Rosary. I don't know anyone, personally, who does that, so I guess I find it a bit surprising that someone would ever think that. Edited July 28, 2008 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='StColette' post='1610670' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:16 PM']lol I wasn't directing that at you I just know some people get very fixed on those promises and that becomes their driving force for the Rosary rather than out of love and devotion.[/quote] No problem. I do think that all should remember that promises made for any type of prayer all came through divine revelation. I believe in many of those that came through the saints but, you are correct. One should only be praying anything out of a love of God and a desire to grow closer to him through prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote]spiritual growth despite the Promises[/quote] Most of the Promises are focused on spiritual growth, so it kind of goes hand in hand. Those are the ones I am concentrated on, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='lilac_angel' post='1610679' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:27 PM']so I guess I find it a bit surprising that someone would ever think that. [/quote]+J.M.J.+ a scrupulous person probably does. and honestly, i find it really hard to believe that there is an argument over what prayer is better than another! (besides Mass, and LOTH) any prayer that draws you deeper into conformity of God's will is a wonderful thing! some are great at off-the-cuff spontaneous prayer, some are great at rote prayer (like the rosary), some are great at just sitting and listening to God in Adoration. heck, some people are great at all of it! (i wish i was that person!) anyway, that's just my (un-informed) two cents about this. if you pray the rosary, great! if you pray LOTH, great! if you pray the Divine Mercy, great! if you go to Adoration, great! It's all in my book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savienu Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1609401' date='Jul 26 2008, 06:57 PM']Some people might not be called to it; like some are called to the priesthood or consecrated life, it's not a call that all receive. I'm not particularly devoted to the rosary, though I do love our Mother. "My" devotion is to the Divine Mercy. It was something that Jesus used very early on to bring me closer to Him. YMMV.[/quote] I LOVE the divine mercy chaplet, and like you it was something I prayed early on in my return to the Church. Frankly, in the beginning I just found it easier. I've also read some of Sr. Faustina's diary, and love the insights it brings. As far as the rosary, I try to pray it, but I admit, it's TOUGH. I have fallen asleep praying it before, and I have a hard time really meditating on the mysteries, so it ends up becoming just a lot of repetition. I do see the value of it, though, and I pray for the grace to get better at praying it consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1610682' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:29 PM']No problem. I do think that all should remember that promises made for any type of prayer all came through divine revelation. I believe in many of those that came through the saints but, you are correct. One should only be praying anything out of a love of God and a desire to grow closer to him through prayer.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ as far as i know, anything revealed to saints is private revelation, and as such, the faithful are not required to believe in it or pray it. st. colette will correct me, right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1610686' date='Jul 28 2008, 01:31 PM']+J.M.J.+ a scrupulous person probably does. and honestly, i find it really hard to believe that there is an argument over what prayer is better than another! (besides Mass, and LOTH) any prayer that draws you deeper into conformity of God's will is a wonderful thing! some are great at off-the-cuff spontaneous prayer, some are great at rote prayer (like the rosary), some are great at just sitting and listening to God in Adoration. heck, some people are great at all of it! (i wish i was that person!) anyway, that's just my (un-informed) two cents about this. if you pray the rosary, great! if you pray LOTH, great! if you pray the Divine Mercy, great! if you go to Adoration, great! It's all in my book! [/quote] I meant I found it a bit surprising that someone would ever focus on only the Promises like that. I consider myself quite scrupulous, though not perfect by any means. I've never argued that one prayer was better than any other! I love Adoration, I love the Rosary, Divine Mercy, LOTH. I'm glad we have so many options The ones I'm currently the most devoted to are the Rosary and Adoration, but I said a Divine Mercy last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='savienu' post='1610688' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:31 PM']I do see the value of it, though, and I pray for the grace to get better at praying it consistently.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ that's awesome! do you have a meditation book that would help you? I have one by Amy Welborn, you might like it. [url="http://www.amazon.com/Praying-Rosary-Luminous-Sorrowful-Mysteries/dp/1592761518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217270121&sr=1-1"]here it is on amazon.com[/url] btw, welcome to phatmass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='lilac_angel' post='1610693' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:35 PM']I've never argued that one prayer was better than any other! I love Adoration, I love the Rosary, Divine Mercy, LOTH. I'm glad we have so many options The ones I'm currently the most devoted to are the Rosary and Adoration, but I said a Divine Mercy last night.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ sorry, i know you didn't. i was just saying, in general tone of the thread. you are totally right about the options! that's what is so great about being a Catholic!! we have so many ways to go and get deeper with God. lol, i go in cycles too, for awhile, i was doing Divine Mercy every day at 3 p.m., but now i'm doing LOTH (daily) and the rosary (daily) and then Adoration i do once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='lilac_angel' post='1610676' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:24 PM']However, I still see no problem with finding them utterly amazing and wondering why more aren't pulled to trying to pray the Rosary more due to Promises.[/quote] I did not say that one could not find them amazing In fact, I acknowledged them as both wonderful and beautiful. As for the second part "wondering why more aren't pulled to trying to pray the Rosary more due to the Promises", I believe this could cause a fixation on what one is getting out of the prayer instead of what the prayer is supposed to be for. [quote]One of the main things we get from the Promises is closer to God, which is what we all want, and it's what God wants us to want. It's great that we can achieve that through a beautiful devotion like the Rosary. The Rosary can help strengthen our faith. Not everyone starts out with a ton of graces; some would do well with some consolations before they can progress, and if the Promises promise an great increase in graces, including that of faith and the main Christian virtues, then that is something to rejoice about.[/quote] Again, the Promises are beautiful and wonderful and are a loving thing to be bestowed upon those who pray the Rosary. I merely cautioned the over fixation on the Promises because some people can be led into praying for the sole purpose of the Promises rather than for the benefit of their soul. And, yes the Promises do bring us closer to God, but as I've said I have know some who fixated so much upon the Promises or indulgences that their intentions became warped. Does that make sense? Many of us in the secular society can often fall into the trap of "what can I get out of this?" and that should never be our driving force for prayer of any kind. We should pray not because of what we get out of it, even if it does bring us closer to God, but because God is worthy of our praise. Many of the souls who suffered from the Dark Night of the Soul received zero consolation during prayer sometimes for a great number of years (30+) but they continued to pray because they know it to be pleasing to God. They felt as if God had completely abandoned them and they did not feel drawn closer to God, but they continued to pray despite this. Now, while the Dark Night is a form of spiritual growth and contemplation that some will encounter, I believe it gives a good example of how we are to pray. We are to pray regardless of any consolation that we receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1610690' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:32 PM']+J.M.J.+ as far as i know, anything revealed to saints is private revelation, and as such, the faithful are not required to believe in it or pray it. st. colette will correct me, right?? [/quote] lol You're correct. Catholics aren't required to believe private revelation such as Fatima, Mt. Carmel, etc. They aren't required to believe in them because it does not add anything to the deposit of faith, meaning necessary for salvation Now private revelation that has been approved by the Church can give great spiritual guidance, and I believe that they should be taken to heart and if anything their general message should be believed, which generally is a call to prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='lilac_angel' post='1610693' date='Jul 28 2008, 02:35 PM']I meant I found it a bit surprising that someone would ever focus on only the Promises like that. I consider myself quite scrupulous, though not perfect by any means.[/quote] You would be surprised by the things that many people struggle with, and sadly it is usually rooted in pride somehow. Amazing how everything seems to go back to pride. btw lol I wanted to make this clear; I'm a big advocate of the Rosary. Though I've fallen off the horse with praying it as often as I did. I used to pray it every night. It is a very beautiful prayer and I love it dearly. Do I think it's necessary for every Catholic to pray it for the salvation of their soul? No, but it can help like so many other devotions can help. Above all, I believe our greatest devotion and practice as Catholics should be the Mass. And I mean full participation in the Mass. Preparing before Mass in prayerful thought, lingering a while after Mass to contemplate (if you can stay after some people can't ). Our greatest devotion and the one that should give us the most joy is the Most Holy Mass, because it is there that Christ is made present in the Most Blessed Eucharist. It is where we receive Christ into ourselves and Christ receives us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='StColette' post='1610705' date='Jul 28 2008, 12:44 PM']lol You're correct. Catholics aren't required to believe private revelation such as Fatima, Mt. Carmel, etc. They aren't required to believe in them because it does not add anything to the deposit of faith, meaning necessary for salvation Now private revelation that has been approved by the Church can give great spiritual guidance, and I believe that they should be taken to heart and if anything their general message should be believed, which generally is a call to prayer.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ awesome, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 [quote name='StColette' post='1610701' date='Jul 28 2008, 01:39 PM']I did not say that one could not find them amazing In fact, I acknowledged them as both wonderful and beautiful. As for the second part "wondering why more aren't pulled to trying to pray the Rosary more due to the Promises", I believe this could cause a fixation on what one is getting out of the prayer instead of what the prayer is supposed to be for. Again, the Promises are beautiful and wonderful and are a loving thing to be bestowed upon those who pray the Rosary. I merely cautioned the over fixation on the Promises because some people can be led into praying for the sole purpose of the Promises rather than for the benefit of their soul. And, yes the Promises do bring us closer to God, but as I've said I have know some who fixated so much upon the Promises or indulgences that their intentions became warped. Does that make sense? Many of us in the secular society can often fall into the trap of "what can I get out of this?" and that should never be our driving force for prayer of any kind. We should pray not because of what we get out of it, even if it does bring us closer to God, but because God is worthy of our praise. Many of the souls who suffered from the Dark Night of the Soul received zero consolation during prayer sometimes for a great number of years (30+) but they continued to pray because they know it to be pleasing to God. They felt as if God had completely abandoned them and they did not feel drawn closer to God, but they continued to pray despite this. Now, while the Dark Night is a form of spiritual growth and contemplation that some will encounter, I believe it gives a good example of how we are to pray. We are to pray regardless of any consolation that we receive.[/quote] yes. consolations are not why a person who has faith should pray. but what about not the saints who already believe, but those who are just getting into the faith? Not everyone already has a very strong faith to begin with. God wants us to desire a stronger faith in him. yes, saints have had dark nights of the soul, but the truth is, they still believed in God in the first place. sometimes that withdrew from them. but they had something to go off of. something in them held on. in today's society, many people don't have any kind of religious basis, due to parents or whatever. i never see it as "what can i get out of this"..and while i'm praying the rosary, i'm focused on praising Him or asking Him to convert souls, etc. however, i don't see a problem with the Promises initially attracting a lukewarm or soul quite low in faith or graces and then leading them into the devotion and praying it to praise God. that's what i was driving at. they were given for a reason - to attract imperfect humans to do something that would eventually benefit our souls and please God. God attracts different people in different ways. saying that about the Promises, wondering why more weren't attracted, was a way of potentially piquing the curiosity of those who already don't care one way or another about this beautiful devotion. kind of like advertising one little cool aspect of Catholicism. hehe. i simply wanted to get knowledge out there about them because many Catholics, even devout ones, do not know about them. i never dreamed that it could potentially have bad effects to mention how great they were. but luckily this thread will clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 I took a small book of Mother Theresa's meditations on the Rosary to adoration with me one day and have since taken it several times to pray one of the mysteries. Her writing and meditation on the mysteries is so beautiful. I usually end up in tears at some point. I have since picked up other saints and writers meditations and they really do open up the mind to think of things I obviously am too dense to come up with. They have been a great aid to me in bringing me to a love of the rosary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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