The Rosary

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1615303' date='Aug 1 2008, 03:10 PM']it's not just a prayer, it's life! ("prayer of the Gospel", Gospel = life, prayer of life!)

btw, dominicansoul.. St. Dominic would be rolling in his grave if he heard some of things around here! or preach for eternity on the Rosary like he did in his life on earth [/quote]


That he did! Don't you just love him???

"Prayer of life!" Do you mind if I use that?

Speaking of St. Dominic, I don't believe there have been any Saints in the Church who "were not called" to pray the Rosary. I do believe there were many who struggled with it. For example, St. Terese of Lisieux found it very difficult...but just her constant perserverance in praying it daily brought her extreme grace...

So, although technically it isn't necessary for salvation, it sure doesn't hurt it either!

Edited August 1, 2008 by dominicansoul

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1615192' date='Aug 1 2008, 03:36 PM']I hope and pray that all who do not pray it every day will begin to do so, even if you are "not feeling called" to pray it...

It is a viable weapon against Satan and the spirit of this age we are living...

The question offered in this topic is a bit misleading...[b]The Rosary is for everyone, whether they want to accept it or not, it's there for our taking...[/b]

And I was wrong for saying, "buy hey, that's just me..." My thoughts are shared by those of countless spiritual director's, saints of the past and many many Popes....not to mention, the Mother of God herself, who has appeared throughout the ages asking that we lift up the Holy Rosary to God every day. It's the reason why Dominican communities offer it up in community twice a day, three times during the months of May and October (and I couldn't imagine any of the sisters telling the Mother Superior, "I'm not going to, because I don't feel called to it...")

It's a staple of Catholicism, a gift given to improve our relationship with God...more so than all the rest (with the exceptions of The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and the Liturgy of the Hours...)

[b]It may be a struggle at the beginning, but it becomes much more as you progress in the spiritual life...[/b]
God bless![/quote]

This is not necessarily so. I can't help but feel judged when you make this sort of statement, and I'm pretty hard to offend. I've had conversations about this very topic with my spiritual director (who isn't just your typical parish priest... he worked for then Cardinal Ratzinger, helped to write the catechism, and is a well-known speaker both on EWTN & around the U.S., he also has a deep devotion to the Blessed Mother) and there are times when praying the rosary is not beneficial to one's prayer life. It's not something that everyone is necessarily called towards. It's a great and powerful tool to be used by those who are called to pray it (and I will grant you that many are probably called to pray the rosary, but have not yet responded).

But see, here's the thing... Prayer is first and foremost a holy communication between the soul and God. A lifting up of our souls to the Lord Almighty. That is the primary reason for prayer. Now, the promises of the Rosary and the great graces that Mary showers in response-- that's all very good and wonderful! But, if the Rosary is not first and foremost acting as a holy communication between a soul and God, then it is fruitless. The promises and powers of the Rosary mean nothing, because the soul is not being lifted up to God.

THAT is why someone may not be called to pray the Rosary. When the Rosary is not a prayer, when the Rosary does not enable a person to lift their soul to God, then that person should not pray it.

[StColette]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1615327' date='Aug 1 2008, 04:56 PM']I've had conversations about this very topic with my spiritual director (who isn't just your typical parish priest... he worked for then Cardinal Ratzinger, helped to write the catechism, and is a well-known speaker both on EWTN & around the U.S., he also has a deep devotion to the Blessed Mother)[/quote]

Can you and your spiritual director move to my area !?! lol

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='StColette' post='1615331' date='Aug 1 2008, 05:59 PM']Can you and your spiritual director move to my area !?! lol[/quote]

LOL.

This holy man is absolutely amazing and I'm so blessed to have him on our campus. Although, I have to admit... he's rather intimidating to talk to as a spiritual director. He's just a genius. He was a Rhodes Scholar, has degrees in Physics, Economics, and Philosophy, plus an S.T.L. and S.T.D. It's kind of scary, actually, how smart this man is.

Hence why I trust his opinions on stuff like this, lol.

[StColette]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1615335' date='Aug 1 2008, 05:03 PM']LOL.

This holy man is absolutely amazing and I'm so blessed to have him on our campus. Although, I have to admit... he's rather intimidating to talk to as a spiritual director. He's just a genius. He was a Rhodes Scholar, has degrees in Physics, Economics, and Philosophy, plus an S.T.L. and S.T.D. It's kind of scary, actually, how smart this man is.

Hence why I trust his opinions on stuff like this, lol.[/quote]

Which campus is this?

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1615170' date='Aug 1 2008, 01:01 PM']But you have been doing more than encouraging people to say the Rosary, you are saying or quoting stuff that the Rosary is necessary to Salvation, again pushing your personal agenda before Church teachings, and again making everyone who doesn't agree with your views as somehow less Catholic than you. We know the Rosary is a powerful prayer that has a long history and rightful place in the Church, but it not our salvation and people can be perfectly good and holy Catholics without saying it. The last part you don't seem to get.[/quote]


Mother of Pearl, did you read the entire thread? I never said the Rosary was necessary for salvation.

Edited August 1, 2008 by friendofJPII

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='StColette' post='1615337' date='Aug 1 2008, 06:06 PM']Which campus is this?[/quote]

Mount St. Mary's University and Seminary. It's in Emmitsburg, Maryland. My s/d works on both sides of campus-- University side as VP of Catholic Identity (last year he was also interim-chaplain, but we got a full time chaplain for this year) and on the seminary side as Director of Homiletics and Director of the Pre-Theologate Program. I think he also does some work for the US Bishops, but I'm not sure. All I know is that he's always busy and never sleeps, lol. He used to be in the Navy, so his motto is "Sleep is for the weak!" as he grabs another cup of coffee.

[StColette]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1615343' date='Aug 1 2008, 05:11 PM']Mount St. Mary's University and Seminary. It's in Emmitsburg, Maryland. My s/d works on both sides of campus-- University side as VP of Catholic Identity (last year he was also interim-chaplain, but we got a full time chaplain for this year) and on the seminary side as Director of Homiletics and Director of the Pre-Theologate Program. I think he also does some work for the US Bishops, but I'm not sure. All I know is that he's always busy and never sleeps, lol. He used to be in the Navy, so his motto is "Sleep is for the weak!" as he grabs another cup of coffee.[/quote]

He sounds amazing. And yes, I know we've totally hijacked this thread lol

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='StColette' post='1615346' date='Aug 1 2008, 06:13 PM']He sounds amazing. And yes, I know we've totally hijacked this thread lol[/quote]

I've got him pegged as being named Bishop here within a few years. Quite easily.

Haha, oops.

Back to topic.

If the Rosary isn't acting as a prayer for someone (lifting their soul to God), then it avails nothing to pray it and it truly does become vain repitition.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1615327' date='Aug 1 2008, 03:56 PM']This is not necessarily so. I can't help but feel judged when you make this sort of statement, and I'm pretty hard to offend. I've had conversations about this very topic with my spiritual director (who isn't just your typical parish priest... he worked for then Cardinal Ratzinger, helped to write the catechism, and is a well-known speaker both on EWTN & around the U.S., he also has a deep devotion to the Blessed Mother) and there are times when praying the rosary is not beneficial to one's prayer life. It's not something that everyone is necessarily called towards. It's a great and powerful tool to be used by those who are called to pray it (and I will grant you that many are probably called to pray the rosary, but have not yet responded).

But see, here's the thing... Prayer is first and foremost a holy communication between the soul and God. A lifting up of our souls to the Lord Almighty. That is the primary reason for prayer. Now, the promises of the Rosary and the great graces that Mary showers in response-- that's all very good and wonderful! But, if the Rosary is not first and foremost acting as a holy communication between a soul and God, then it is fruitless. The promises and powers of the Rosary mean nothing, because the soul is not being lifted up to God.

THAT is why someone may not be called to pray the Rosary. When the Rosary is not a prayer, when the Rosary does not enable a person to lift their soul to God, then that person should not pray it.[/quote]

St. Terese of Liseux begged to differ. Even when she didn't feel like praying it, she still did it, partly out of obedience to her rule of life, and partly because she knew the significance and importance of the Holy Rosary. Even when she felt spiritually dry, she still lifted up the Holy Rosary to God. Did this become meaningless babble to her as she didn't feel like she was lifting her soul to God? (She was extremely dry during the Rosary.) She speaks about this in her autobiography, how very hard it was for her. But she came to understand that no matter the dryness, God sees the heart. And her offering up the Rosary even when she would rather not be, was enough, if not even more so. It was fruitful regardless of her feelings. I think when people just attempt to offer up the Holy Rosary, God takes care of the rest.

I'm confused as to how the Holy Rosary is not beneficial to one's prayer life. I don't pretend to know more than your spiritual director. He sounds like a very learned man. Although it confuses me what he has said to you, only you can define it, for [b]it is directed only to you (not all[/b].) What I have presented in this thread, is how I believe it to be so, it is how it has been proven in my life, and after being a Catholic all my life, it is how it was presented to me...the Rosary is there for all. It is a gift to the Church. Even those who lift the Holy Rosary up with weak effort and very dry, even then, it has an effect on that soul, and proves fruitful. The power of the Holy Rosary is not dependant on the person praying it...

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1615349' date='Aug 1 2008, 04:18 PM']I've got him pegged as being named Bishop here within a few years. Quite easily.

Haha, oops.

Back to topic.

If the Rosary isn't acting as a prayer for someone (lifting their soul to God), then it avails nothing to pray it and it truly does become vain repitition.[/quote]

I'm not sure how the Rosary could not be a prayer for someone....why else would they take the time to say it. I know some people who are a little OCD about the Rosary, where they worry about meditating perfectly, or constantly want to lead it, or feel they have to pray a certain amount a day, but I think they have OCD tendancies in general that carry over into other areas of their life, like my old roomate at FUS!....

Yes, everyone must pray the "prayer while putting on your socks..." that is def necessary for salvation!

[StColette]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1615300' date='Aug 1 2008, 04:06 PM']yep. the Rosary is more conducive to going deeper. sure, someone can go really deep with the Divine Mercy, but more people are more likely to go deeper with the Rosary merely by the meditations on the mysteries. i guess you can try applying the mysteries to the DM if you want. i find i use them both for different purposes.[/quote]

Not to go back and forth or anything, but to call the Divine Mercy Chaplet merely getting one's feet wet in spirituality, I believe is taking things a little too far. The Lord, Himself, revealed the Divine Mercy Chaplet and asked that it be prayed constantly and throughout the entire world. I don't think the Lord would go through so much trouble to give us a prayer that is equivalent to us just getting our feet wet spiritually.

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='StColette' post='1615363' date='Aug 1 2008, 04:39 PM']Not to go back and forth or anything, but to call the Divine Mercy Chaplet merely getting one's feet wet in spirituality, I believe is taking things a little too far. The Lord, Himself, revealed the Divine Mercy Chaplet and asked that it be prayed constantly and throughout the entire world. I don't think the Lord would go through so much trouble to give us a prayer that is equivalent to us just getting our feet wet spiritually.[/quote]


Actually, the devotion to the DM is very intense. The chaplet itself is shorter than the Rosary, but devotion to the DM requires that one live the message of mercy, which is not always easy to do. I didn't fully understand DM until I read St. Faustina's diary---heavy stuff! But the divine mercy devotion (not just the chaplet) is very Marian. Mary appeared to St. Faustina several times.

Edited August 1, 2008 by friendofJPII

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1615354' date='Aug 1 2008, 06:28 PM']St. Terese of Liseux begged to differ. Even when she didn't feel like praying it, she still did it, partly out of obedience to her rule of life, and partly because she knew the significance and importance of the Holy Rosary. Even when she felt spiritually dry, she still lifted up the Holy Rosary to God. Did this become meaningless babble to her as she didn't feel like she was lifting her soul to God? (She was extremely dry during the Rosary.) She speaks about this in her autobiography, how very hard it was for her. But she came to understand that no matter the dryness, God sees the heart. And her offering up the Rosary even when she would rather not be, was enough, if not even more so. It was fruitful regardless of her feelings. I think when people just attempt to offer up the Holy Rosary, God takes care of the rest.

I'm confused as to how the Holy Rosary is not beneficial to one's prayer life. I don't pretend to know more than your spiritual director. He sounds like a very learned man. Although it confuses me what he has said to you, only you can define it, for [b]it is directed only to you (not all[/b].) What I have presented in this thread, is how I believe it to be so, it is how it has been proven in my life, and after being a Catholic all my life, it is how it was presented to me...the Rosary is there for all. It is a gift to the Church. Even those who lift the Holy Rosary up with weak effort and very dry, even then, it has an effect on that soul, and proves fruitful. The power of the Holy Rosary is not dependant on the person praying it...[/quote]

I'm not talking about spiritual dryness.

And yes, I have used myself as an example in this (and brought in some words of s/d). I did this only to counter what has been said that [i]everyone is called to pray the rosary[/i]. This is not so. For some souls, this prayer is not affective as a prayer. People pray in different ways. The only prayer that we have [b]all[/b] been called to is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The Church has not required that we pray the Rosary. And for you to insist that we all do is not in line with the Church's teaching. It is not sinful to not pray the Rosary. It is sinful to not pray at all. There is a reason that the Church has not required the Rosary of every person: because not every person is called to it.

Again, I'm not trying to say that the Rosary shouldn't be prayed! By all means, I think it should. But I do not appreciate sweeping statements saying that everyone must pray it. It is a wonderful and powerful prayer... but if it is not first and foremost a prayer for someone, then it is fruitless and powerless. (Again, I am not talking about spiritual dryness.)

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1615366' date='Aug 1 2008, 04:44 PM']I'm not talking about spiritual dryness.

And yes, I have used myself as an example in this (and brought in some words of s/d). I did this only to counter what has been said that [i]everyone is called to pray the rosary[/i]. This is not so. For some souls, this prayer is not affective as a prayer. People pray in different ways. The only prayer that we have [b]all[/b] been called to is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The Church has not required that we pray the Rosary. And for you to insist that we all do is not in line with the Church's teaching. It is not sinful to not pray the Rosary. It is sinful to not pray at all. There is a reason that the Church has not required the Rosary of every person: because not every person is called to it.

Again, I'm not trying to say that the Rosary shouldn't be prayed! By all means, I think it should. But I do not appreciate sweeping statements saying that everyone must pray it. It is a wonderful and powerful prayer... but if it is not first and foremost a prayer for someone, then it is fruitless and powerless. (Again, I am not talking about spiritual dryness.)[/quote]

Please be patient with me, as I continue...I mean no harm to your sensitivities or to offend you in any way, I just wish to share these thoughts...

The Church doesn't set forth a great many obligations on us, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be taking advantage of what the Holy Church has to offer to us...I'm just surprised that a Catholic could feel that certain people are not called to pray the Holy Rosary...

I insist on praying the Rosary to echo the insistence of the Blessed Mother. The very fact that She Herself has asked us to pray the Rosary every day makes me believe the Holy Rosary is for every one.

Here are the words of another great Dominican, Archbishop Sheen. Since I am doing such a poor job of explaining, perhaps he will:

[quote]PRAY THE ROSARY

By Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

J.M.J.

From the earliest days, the Church asked its faithful to recite the one hundred and fifty Psalms of David. This custom still prevails among priests, who recite some of these Psalms every day. [9] However, it was not easy for anyone to memorize the one hundred and fifty Psalms. Then, too, before the invention of printing, it was difficult to procure a book of the Psalms. That is why certain important books like the Bible had to be chained like telephone books are today; otherwise people would have run off with them.

Incidentally, this gave rise to the stupid lie that the Church would not allow anyone to read the Bible, because it was chained. The fact is, it was chained just so people could read it. The telephone book is chained, too, but it s more consulted than any book in modern civilization!

The people who could not read one hundred and fifty Psalms wanted to do something to make up for it. Therefore, they substituted one hundred and fifty Hail Marys. They broke up these one hundred and fifty, in the manner of the Acathist, [10] into fifteen decades, or series of ten. Each part was to be said while meditating on a different aspect of the Life of Our Lord.

To keep the decades separate, each one of them began with the Our Father and ended with the Doxology of Praise to the Trinity.

St. Dominic, who died in 1221, received from the Blessed Mother the command to preach and to popularize this devotion for the good of souls, for conquest over evil, and for the prosperity of Holy Mother Church and thus gave us the Rosary in its present classical form.

The Black Death, which ravaged all Europe and wiped out one-third of its population, prompted the faithful to cry out to the Mother of Our Lord to protect them, at a time when the present moment and death were almost one. [11]

The Black Death has ended. But now the Red Death of Communism is sweeping the earth (circa 1950). I find it interesting that, when the Blessed Mother appeared at Fatima in 1917 because of the great decline in morals and the advent of godlessness, she asked that, after the "Glory be" we add "have mercy on all souls; save them from hell and lead us to heaven."

It is objected that there is much repetition in the Rosary because the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary are said so often; therefore some say it is monotonous.

That reminds me of a woman who came to see me one evening after instructions. She said, "I would never become a Catholic. You say the same words in the Rosary over and over again, and anyone who repeats the same words is never sincere. I would never believe anyone who repeated his words and neither would God."

I asked her who the man was with her. She said he was her fiancé. I asked: "Does he love you?" "Certainly, he does," "But how do you know?" "He told me." "What did he say?"

"He said 'I love you.'"

"When did he tell you last?"

"About an hour ago."

"Did he tell you before?"

"Yes, last night."

"What did he say?"

"I love you."

"But never before?"

"He tells me every night."

I said: "Do not believe him. He is repeating; he is not sincere."

The beautiful truth is that there is no repetition in, "I love you." Because there is a new moment of time, another point inn space, the words do not mean the same as they did at another time or space.

Love is never monotonous in the uniformity of its expression. The mind is infinitely variable in its language, but the heart is not. The heart of a man, in the face of the woman he loves, is too poor to translate the infinity of his affection into a different word. So the heart takes one expression, "I love you," and in saying it over and over again, it never repeats. It is the only real news in the universe. That is what we do when we say the Rosary, we are saying to God, the Trinity, to the Incarnate Saviour, to the Blessed Mother: "I love you, I love you, I love you."

Each time it means something different because, at each decade, our mind is moving to a new demonstration of the Saviour's love.

The Rosary is the best therapy for these distraught, unhappy, fearful, and frustrated souls, precisely because it involves the simultaneous use of three powers: the physical, the vocal, and the spiritual, and in that order.

The Rosary is the book of the blind, where souls see and there enact the greatest drama of love the world has ever known; it is the book of the simple, which initiates them into mysteries and knowledge more satisfying than the education of other men; it is the book of the aged, whose eyes close upon the shadow of this world, and open on the substance of the next. The power of the Rosary is beyond description."

If you wish to convert anyone to the fullness of the knowledge of Our Lord and to His Mystical Body, then teach him the Rosary. One of two things will happen. Either he will stop saying the Rosary — or he will get the gift of faith. [12][/quote]