If Marijuana Were Legal Would You Consider It A Sin To Use It ?

[saved by grace]

If anyone young is reading this let me start by saying do not do drugs. That includes alcohol along with marijuana. This topic is meant to be for adults and the opinon they have on the subjuct at hand.


Its a fact that marijuana is not evil and was created by God and is good in his eyes.

[font="Arial Black"]Genesis 1:29.
God also said: " See, I give you every seed bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed bearing fruit on it to be your food; and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food." And so it happened. God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. [/font]

My arguement is if it were legal it would not be a sin for a mature adult to choose to use marijuana in moderation.
Paul says in

[font="Arial Black"]Romans 13
Then let us no longer judge one another, but rather resolve never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus tht nothing is unclean in itself; still, it is unclean for someone who thinks it unclean. If your brother is being hurt by what you eat, your conduct is no longer in accord with love. Do not because of your food destroy him for whom Christ died. So do not let your good be reviled. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the holy spirt; whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by others. Let us then pursue what leads to peace and to building up one another. For the sake of food, do not destroy the work of God. EVERYTHING IS INDEED CLEAN, BUT IT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE TO BECOME A STUMBLING BLOCK BY EATING; IT IS GOOD NOT TO EAT MEAT OR DRINK WINE OR DO ANYTHING THAT CAUSES YOUR BROTHER TO STUMBLE. KEEP THE FAITH THAT YOU HAVE TO YOURSELF IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD; BLESSED IS THE ONE WHO DOES NOT CONDEMN HIMSELF FOR WHAT HE APPROVES. BUT WHOEVER HAS DOUBTS IS CONDEMNED IF HE EATS BECAUSE THIS IS NOT FROM FAITH; FOR WHATEVER IS NOT FROM FAITH IS SIN[/font]

Paul also goes on to say that the one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgement on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on someone else's servent? Before his own master he stands or falls. Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also who whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God. So why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of God.


So from these verses and the fact that marijuana is a seed bearing plant and every seed bearing plant was given to us from God to be used as food, I dont see how its possible to say that if one were to put marijuana in their body they would be commiting a sin.

I do think one can form the opinon that it would be a sin for them themselves to do it. But as Paul clearly states in the above verses it does not give the right for that person then to pass judgement on his brother and say that they are also commiting a sin.

So if marijuana were legal do you feel it would be a sin to put it in your body ?

Edited July 24, 2008 by saved by grace

[abercius24]

I admire you in applying scripture to your position! Excellent!

I believe the first scripture you quote must be understood in the context of what the proper use is for each plant. Smoking certain plants will kill you. Such a use of plants is obviously not something that St. Paul would find permissible. So, yes, God sees a righteous uses in every plant, but we must use common sense in finding those proper uses amidst the improper ones.

The second scripture you quote is in the context of Gentile Christians eating food that was part of sacrificial rituals to heathen gods (usually bloody and brutal animal sacrifices). Being former heathens themselves, these Gentiles found themselves scandalized by others who would eat such foods in their presence. Paul recognized that food in and of itself is not evil, even if someone else has used it as part of some demonic ritual. But every Christian should also be sensitive to the weaknesses of his/her fellow Christians who still have not overcome their uncomfortable connotations with such foods. So given this context, I don't believe marijuana qualifies as a food sacrificed to demonic idols.

I once asked an apologist friend of mine why the Church teaches so strongly against the use of such "recreational drugs". He explained to me that men and women have been elevated by God to a stature greater than animals -- essentially created in His image. Our elevated stature manifests itself in our ability to reason and make moral, rationale decisions via our freewill. This is essentially what separates us from behaving like the animals. Such drugs, though, have a specific purpose to lessen our ability to reason and control ourselves. They in fact degrade a human being to a lesser statue, and in some cases make them behave just like an animal. This is unacceptable given all that God has invested in creating us in His image!

These drugs do have a proper use, though, as St. Paul mentions. They are properly used as medicines. In this case, we are choosing the negative effects of these medicines as lesser evils to the greater evil of sickness, pain or death. But the use of medicine requires a significant medical reason, which mere recreational purposes clearly do not qualify.

[KnightofChrist]

I would say it is sinful to become drunk under any cause. Marijuana does cause a drunkenness or buss and that would be sinful.

[saved by grace]

Abercius 24
Thank you for your reply I respect greatly what you are saying although I do not agree with you completly.
Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself for what he approves really jumps out at me.
I do understand that marijuana can be put into the recreational drug category you were talking about but alcohol is in the same category. I would say the one thing that makes alcohol acceptable is that it is legal.

Although you will never convince me that one who drinks liquer that is 80 proof can remain more with it then someone who smokes a bowl of marijuana. I often hear in debates that some will say that you lose complete control from inhaleing once with marijuana. This is simply just not true. One does not become "drunk" from a small dose (lets say a bowl or two of marijuana) So if one were to say I should refrain from marijuana simply because its a drug then i would counter and say in that case one should also refrain from alcohol.

Again it comes back to alcohol being legal and marijuana not being legal. Personally I dont think marijuana should be legal because if missused esspially by teens it can really mess up their lifes. But on the other hand the same is true with alcohol mabey even more so. One is way more inclined to do acts that will harm then and others while consumeing to much alchol. And its so easy to obtain. A teenager can find someone to go them a bottle of 151 pretty easy these days. Again if one were to argue which was more dangerous, a bowl of marijuana or a bottle of 151 I think its a no brainer.

So I still stand by my opinon if legal it would not be a sin to intake marijuana in moderation. I go back to what Paul says "Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself for what he approves"

Godbless

Edited July 24, 2008 by saved by grace

[goldenchild17]

I definitely do not consider light marijuana use (if used for health purposes), a sin at all.
[b]
Regarding the Morality of the Use of Natural Narcotics[/b]

There is no denying that drugs of any kind can be very dangerous. If not used properly they can be harmful to our minds, bodies and souls. And yet, many people believe that the use of natural narcotics (such as marijuana and cocaine) can have positive healing benefits for our minds and bodies if used correctly. The correct use and healing benefits of such agents will be explored in another article. What we want to do here is establish whether or not there is a moral basis for allowing the use of such products. If the Church forbids it then there is no further discussion and we must avoid them. But, if the Church does not forbid them, then this opens the door for further discussion.

Admittedly, there does not seem to be a lot on this subject written by Church authorities. But the following passage is of particular interest:

________________________________________
________________________

[b]Fr. Heribert Jone "Moral Theology" copyright 1961 - page 110:[/b]

"Since morpine, opium, chloroform and similar drugs can also deprive one of the use of his reason temporarily, that which was said of intoxicating drinks holds true also for narcotics (Cf. 165, 4).

a) To use narcotics in small quantities and only occasionally, is a venial sin if done without a sufficient reason. [b]Any proportionately good reason justifies their use, e.g., to calm the nerves, dispel insomnia, etc.[/b]

Such use becomes gravely sinful if it creates an habitual craving for "dope" which is more difficult to overcome than dipsomania and more injurious to health."

________________________________________
_________________________

This passage is telling us that the use of natural narcotics is similar to that of alcohol. Too much and it is immoral. How much is too much will be dealt with in another article but it is important to note that the Church does not expressly forbid the use of natural narcotics. The article notes that recreational use of the drugs is at least a venial sin. But even this venial sin goes away if there is a sufficient reason for using them. It ends by noting that, obviously, if one develops an addiction to such drugs it because sinful and wrong.

This should be enough to show us that the use of natural narcotics is allowed to a certain degree by the Church. While it is not forbidden expressly by the Church, we are also commanded to follow the laws set out for us by our natural earthly authority: "And Jesus answering, said to them: Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's..." Mark 12:17. In anything that does not offend against the law of the Church we are obliged to obey. It is not required by the Church to use natural narcotics, so if our earthly authority outlaws it, then we need to obey this law. Though of course one could petition and actively pursue the legalization of such products.

With that said, there are many places in which natural narcotics are allowed, either in part or in full. In such places, according to Fr. Heribert Jone one of the leading theologians of the 20th century, the use of natural narcotics is not expressly forbidden.

[saved by grace]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1607211' date='Jul 24 2008, 02:27 AM']I would say it is sinful to become drunk under any cause. Marijuana does cause a drunkenness or buss and that would be sinful.[/quote]

Hello KnightofChrist
I would agree with you and say it comes back to moderation.
Depending on the strength of the marijuana one bowl is not going to set you into a drunken state.
Now in no way am I encourging the use of marijuana, its illegal so it should be avoided since we are to follow the laws of the land. But if one were to say its a mortal sin because you become drunk instanly off of a small dose I would disagree because this is not the case. Its not an all or nothing, drunk or not drunk with marijuana. It varies depending on how much is smoked and the quality of the marijuana, similar to alcohol.

[saved by grace]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1607208' date='Jul 24 2008, 02:18 AM']I admire you in applying scripture to your position! Excellent!

I believe the first scripture you quote must be understood in the context of what the proper use is for each plant. Smoking certain plants will kill you. Such a use of plants is obviously not something that St. Paul would find permissible. So, yes, God sees a righteous uses in every plant, but we must use common sense in finding those proper uses amidst the improper ones.[/quote]

I dont believe nor know of any proof that would include marijuana as a plant that would kill you if put into the body.

[Aloysius]

it is not sinful to drink alcohol even to the point of feeling the effects of it. it is sinful to become drunk, which is not defined in morality the same way it is defined by common usage. the level of effect that St. Thomas Aquinas refers to as "hilarity" is not sinful; the line between "hilarity" and "drunkenness" is a very fine line and it's hard to distinguish. to a certain extent, the line is placed at a different physical/biological point depending upon the circumstances and who you are drinking with and everything. the general rule of thumb I'd say is that drunkenness causes you to say or do things that you would not and should not do sober. however, it can cause you to do things you would not do sober so long as they are not things you should not do (and this is where the line moves based upon who you're with and what the circumstances are... if you are with friends and it causes you to say to a good friend that you don't express your feelings to "I love you man" then that is fine, if you are around someone you don't like and it causes you to punch them in the face, then that is not... be smart about how much you drink and how much you drink around which people). don't be a puritan, but don't be a drunkard... alcohol that improves social interaction and increases merriment is not a bad thing; Jesus gave wine to people who had already drank out all that was there (so much that they were at the point where an average host would start serving the bad wine as nobody would notice)... certain occassions permit you to get more of a buzz than others, no occassions permit getting outright drunk, of course. the line is not easily drawn.

could this understanding be applied to a moderate usage of marijuana? possibly, I am not entirely sure. getting baked, of course, would always be sinful. I'm not entirely prepared to condemn light moderate social use outright, but I'm not entirely prepared to recommend it either.

the killing you comment was probably referring to the carcinogenic effects... there is a whole other side of the debate, then, which I have carried on in debates about tobacco; it is my belief that foods and other substances that have gradual health problems involved in their use are acceptable morally, as with everything, in moderation. there are legitimate disagreements between Catholics on the usage of tobacco, but Catholic teaching is pretty clear about the permissability of alcohol and its moderate effects... but for a Catholic who thinks moderate tobacco use as well as alcohol is acceptable, it is hard to make a consistent condemnation of marijuana.

[saved by grace]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1607222' date='Jul 24 2008, 02:56 AM']it is not sinful to drink alcohol even to the point of feeling the effects of it. it is sinful to become drunk, which is not defined in morality the same way it is defined by common usage. the level of effect that St. Thomas Aquinas refers to as "hilarity" is not sinful; the line between "hilarity" and "drunkenness" is a very fine line and it's hard to distinguish. to a certain extent, the line is placed at a different physical/biological point depending upon the circumstances and who you are drinking with and everything. the general rule of thumb I'd say is that drunkenness causes you to say or do things that you would not and should not do sober. however, it can cause you to do things you would not do sober so long as they are not things you should not do (and this is where the line moves based upon who you're with and what the circumstances are... if you are with friends and it causes you to say to a good friend that you don't express your feelings to "I love you man" then that is fine, if you are around someone you don't like and it causes you to punch them in the face, then that is not... be smart about how much you drink and how much you drink around which people). don't be a puritan, but don't be a drunkard... alcohol that improves social interaction and increases merriment is not a bad thing; Jesus gave wine to people who had already drank out all that was there (so much that they were at the point where an average host would start serving the bad wine as nobody would notice)... certain occassions permit you to get more of a buzz than others, no occassions permit getting outright drunk, of course. the line is not easily drawn.

could this understanding be applied to a moderate usage of marijuana? possibly, I am not entirely sure. getting baked, of course, would always be sinful. I'm not entirely prepared to condemn light moderate social use outright, but I'm not entirely prepared to recommend it either.[/quote]

Hello Aloysious
Agree with you 100 %
I think getting baked is deffitenly a mortal sin, just as getting smashed drunk is a mortal sin.
Although smokeing in small amounts and receiving a buzz does not consitute in being baked.
I aslo agree with not being prepared to recommend it. It goes back to what Paul says that in no way should you put a stumbling block before your brother and cause him to sin and fall. If one thinks that its a sin to use marijuana then for that person it is a sin and I cant think of one way you would be helping him by telling him to go ahead and use because it is not a sin.

[saved by grace]

The thing that bothers me is when one is over bearing with their view and insist it is a sin for everyone even though Paul clearly says " who whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God. So why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of God.

[puellapaschalis]

Here it is legal. It just stinks.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1607222' date='Jul 24 2008, 02:56 AM']could this understanding be applied to a moderate usage of marijuana? possibly, I am not entirely sure. getting baked, of course, would always be sinful. I'm not entirely prepared to condemn light moderate social use outright, but I'm not entirely prepared to recommend it either.[/quote]

I think its a decent comparison. As does Fr. Jone and he uses this exact comparison in the text I posted:

"Since morpine, opium, chloroform and similar drugs can also deprive one of the use of his reason temporarily, [b]that which was said of intoxicating drinks holds true also for narcotics[/b] (Cf. 165, 4).

I think he's saying that social use of it is a venial sin, but even if there's the slightest reason to use it (insomnia etc.) then it's not even a venial sin. Whereas I think it is permissible to drink alcohol socially without any particular need for it. That's the only difference I can see. Otherwise it's a great example to consider.

Edited July 24, 2008 by goldenchild17

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='saved by grace' post='1607195' date='Jul 24 2008, 01:27 AM']If anyone young is reading this let me start by saying do not do drugs[/quote]

IMO, marijuana SHOULD be legal and if it were, no I would not think it's a sin to use it. It's an herb that grows right up out of the ground and actually when used in moderation has many good effects.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='saved by grace' post='1607223' date='Jul 24 2008, 03:05 AM']Hello Aloysious
Agree with you 100 %
I think getting baked is deffitenly a mortal sin, just as getting smashed drunk is a mortal sin.[/quote]


The catechism teaches on this subject from the angle of self-control. If what you're consuming (or the quantity) makes you lose self-control, that's a sin. Also, there are the legal issues. If you consume something that our temporal laws say is illegal then that's a sin. But if marijuana were legal, it would only be an issue of self-control.

And marijuana doesn't get people smashed in any case. It actually slows you down and mellows you out.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i second all the pro pot moderation folk.

some people claim, or at least caution, that pot is inherently wrong cause the effects of it are inherently psychodelic ish in altering one's mind. not like acid etc. whereas, alchol while inebrating at the moderate level isn't pscyhodelic.
now,,, this is a wishy washy arguement, but might have merit to it. as someone who's done both enough times that i should be able to know though, i really can't tell if you if there's something inherently pscyhodelic about pot in altering one's mind that's any different than booze.
maybe the type of buzz is inherently different,,,, but whatever the case, i'm not sure it's enough difference in the ultikmate effect to be any different substantially.


also consider... the cc allows one to drink and smoke cigarrettes. are the anti pot folk telling me that pot on an even less frequent basis is wrong than smoking and drinking at the same time on a more frequent basis?
the health ocncerns are greater with that than pot.
the health concerns are arguably greater with either one individually than pot, at least if done more moderatley.